I found this "slap" in the Richardson's grove post below.
Jeff Muskrat said...
"Ernie,Stop beating a dead horse to death. We all know how Redwoods produce. The trouble is, it takes thousands of years for trees to get that big."
There you go again Jeff, Just so you will know, the TWO redwoods that they are taking out of the park are one 6" and one 7" tree. Just to be as ridiculous on the other side, but that is a truthful statement!
Yes Jeff, some redwoods can get to be thousands of years old. I'm sure that you know that some genetic stock is tens of thousands of years old. Not many people know that, so you have a real advantage in your immense knowledge of the growth cycle of a redwood. Some trees, as they age, develop heart and top rot. The rot happens at time of drought, or some kind of growth stress. Sometimes great floods cause these stresses by causing root suffocation. The trees at Jordan creek along the freeway a few miles south of Stafford show signs of this process. (the cause of the top rot has not been studied) If a fire comes through, which used to happen on a regular basis. Those types of trees would be burned and destroyed to become fertilizer for the young root sprouts that would pop up all around the old root stock. The burned tree would then become several more trees of the same genetic stock. The healthy trees around the burned out trees take on a new and healthy spurt of growth. Every hundreds to thousands of years this process repeats itself. The same genetic stock spreads and becomes a small forest of the same tree. People have done much to damage the life-cycle of the redwoods by saving them from fire and other natural regenerative processes. Basically we are loving them into unnatural life cycles.
Your sensationalism about the trees in the grove is too much for me to ignore. First, anyone can tell by visiting Kym Kemp's blogsite, and looking at her photography that she is a true native daughter of the Eel River canyon. Her love of this place is obvious to anyone that visits her blog. Please click on this link: Redheaded Blackbelt. To think that you have a better opinion of what should happen on the north coast above hers is ludicrous. You talk about trees being a thousand years old, and carry on about their eminent death. When in actuality there will be about 87 trees removed. All of them considerably younger than the highway itself. And all less than 24 inches in dia. The trees are in an area spread out over approximately one mile. They are NOT widening the road. They are taking out a few small banks of dirt and brush and realigning the road to make it LEGAL for trucks to go through it with out being hindered. There will be a six inch, and a seven inch redwood removed in the park. I wouldn't think that would be enough to call out Paul Revere to make another ride hollering “The corporations are coming”.
MOST of the cost of the project is increased by the fact that Caltrans is making certain, to a ridiculous degree, that not one tree is even affected. They know that if one tree dies for any reason, certain die-hard radicals would shake their finger at it until Hell freezes over. The fact-of-the-mater is, very few old-growth redwood roots are even going to be cut.
Jeff, I've visited your blogsite and I find it rife with destructive radicalism of the kind that I could never approve of. I will post it here and hope that people go to it, and read it carefully. To go to Jeff Muskrats blog, click here: Save Richardson's Grove and make your own determinations.
Jeff aligns himself with people like Julia Butterfly Hill. Jeff, I know Julia butterfly, believe me you are no Julia Butterfly. She is a dedicated environmentalist. She backed down Charles Hurwitz, and Maxxam corporation. She stayed in her tree-sit through storms, drenching rain, 90+ MPH winds, and helicopter blades. She backed down the most destructive element to the North Coast redwoods. Hurwitz is gone! Now, if we can just start to rebuild, on a sustained yield basis, we can have another minor lumber products industry.
Other people that Jeff aligns himself with is “Earth First”. Sorry Jeff, you lost me there! They are just not responsible people. But, Jeff adopts their tactics. This is his contingency plan when he loses; “I cannot see this project going through, and if it does, we will put a stop to it through non-violent resistance.”
One important reason that I would take Kym's opinion over Jeff Muskrat is that the whole right side of his blog is dedicated to informing you how you can send money to him, to support his great battle against the people that are going to ruin Richardson's Grove for no reason.
Jeff, The REASON is to make the least environmentally destructive route in the north coast LEGAL for truck traffic. No other method is better. Not the bypass, not leaving it the way it is. Chances are the Richardson's Grove trees will be healthier on completion of this project. Because, believe me, nobody wants to screw up on this one!
Friday, May 29, 2009
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65 comments:
well said ernie, i think you have a good perspective on the subject. The grove will be perfectly fine, there is just a small group of parinoid folks in humboldt who think any improvments or new developments in this county will instantly destroy the countys charm and turn it into another "santa rosa".
The more Jeff talks the less he says
Wow Ernie, you say top rot in some redwood tree's. When I was cutting logs I fell a redwood that had a fir tree growing out its top. I got two 20's out of that fir. That was the good ol' days I guess, before people started wondering if we should be sending electric logging trucks through Richardson Grove.
Oregon
some of these people would crap their pants,if they saw all the logging trucks that were on the old 101 back in the 50s.and all the sawmills supporting their evil vice.
To, Anon 7:51
I'm not nice like Ernie. I would rip you apart at first chance.
OREGON !!!!!!!!!!!!
rip me apart with a sharp saw???
i remember all the logging trucks going up 101 back in the fifties when we went to spyrock. there wasn't any logging in spyrock until later on. there was atually a barbed wire gate that we went through and then a steep climb straight up the hill. the road in there now is the logging road that came later. my cousins, the forrds worked in the mill at ukiah, i remember visiting them and checking the mill out. i don't really understand why someone would demonize these people for doing some honest work that was both hard and dangerous.
most of these tree huggers are originally from big cities who chopped down their trees years ago.
i can understand their fight against corporations who were destroying all the old trees, but sometimes common sense brings about the common good for everyone.
treating each side with respect is the only approach to take in solving this problem. otherwise you are looking at 30 more years of name calling and childish behavior.
When I was cutting logs I fell a redwood that had a fir tree growing out its top. I got two 20's out of that fir. That was the good ol' days I guessholy fucking shit! i wish Suzy could of been there to see if anyone was there to hear if it made a sound or knot.
huggles,
s
ANON 8:46 PM
I apologize to you. I was out of line. Don't get me wrong though, I am not a nice person and I believe you are.
Oregon
you took me wrong buddy!i'm on your side!!!!i grew up up on the 101 with log trucks passing me every day on my way to school. my dad was in the woods running half a dozen cats!
I thought you might have missed that 7:46 was being facetious in his comment, Oregon... glad you see it now. You're wrong about something, though, & I want 7:46 to know it: Oregon IS a nice person.
And, Suzy, I'll bet Oregon wishes you were there, too.
thanks ROBIN!sometimes my joking,well!it just doesn't come out right!
BTW,OREGON scared the piss out of me when i was about 10 years old.told me there was a boogie man in the woods around the garberville airport!!!!!or actually down the hill near pancoasts!!!
After visiting a few of these "Environmental Activist" web-sites. I'm reminded of a T.V. preacher preaching Hell & Brimstone, and, "Ohhh.. by-the-way, send me all your money, that is the only way I can save you!"
I can't believe all the rhetoric about “Thousand year old trees.” “Making a three lane freeway.” “Destroying the last Old Growth Redwood on the planet”. They say things like “Send me your money, we've got to stop this”.
They say, things like; we will win no matter what, if we don't, we will lay on the road and have a tantrum until they give us our way.
We are talking about TWO trees. Both less than twenty years old!
The state would be willing to migate, or offset the loss of those trees by repairing a forest, or replacing the trees in kind somewhere else. Which by the way, I advocate and appove of. Rather than cause a battle, we could be winning real improvements to the world we live in.
Amen, Ernie!!
Yes, amen, Ernie.
And, 8:51, maybe I was wrong about Oregon being a nice guy... I didn't know he terrorized little kids! (-:
YEAH,50 years later he is still picking on me!!!
No, “Oregon” is NOT a nice guy. He's a sissy. He turned tail and ran to Alaska. He left me to fight for what is right for our part of the world all by myself at the first sign of the newcomers showing up and telling us what we were doing wrong, and how to do it better. He left me to fight for this canyon all by myself.
The first thing that the newcomers did was "Clean our streams". They removed "Log jambs, that the loggers caused" from the stream beds, and made hippy houses out of them. “Oregon” and I both knew that the log jambs were not obstructions, but the were prime fish habitat. The "jams" provided resting holes and shade for the spawning salmon and young fry. They provided cool water pooling in the summer to raise the young salmon. As a kid, I used to spend my days crawling over the log jams, droppeg my grasshopper baited hook and string down into the log jams and catching trout. Ask the newcomers where I can fish now that they have "fixed things".
After they removed the timber from the stream beds, they discovered that they had created a fast water riffle all the way to the ocean, that became habitat for NOTHING. They rectified this problem by making chain link fence cages filled them with rocks and dumped them in the stream beds to cause pooling. The fish could not hide under, nor could they stay cool in these phony pools. The chain link cages wore out from sediment erosion, and the resulting barbs gutted the spawning salmon.
Another thing that the newcomers did was open up old logging roads that were out-sloped, water-barred and healed. They were opened back up by real estate agents, and developers, and called “old logging roads”. They in-sloped the roads to collect run-off and directed it over unstable land resulting in increased erosion. But, they didn't care, they just cussed the loggers and blamed it on them.
The newcomers blamed the destruction of the Eel River Canyon during the '55 and '64 flood on erosion caused by the loggers. It is easy to say that the unprotected hillsides washed into the river because of logging. But, I saw full untouched virgin forests slide into the canyons during rain that I had not seen the likes of before, nor since. No one realizes the combination of events that led up to the '64 flood, but “Oregon” and I saw it. It rained so hard that most rain gauges could not record it, and some rain gauges washed away. The river being 35 feet over highway 101 in lower Weott is pretty graphic. It hasn't been back there since, and there has been plenty of logging since. That should tell us something about how hard it rained in '64. The ocean beaches were so covered with timber and driftwood after the flood that they were totally inaccessible. You had to see it. “Oregon” and I did see it.
The thing that always bothered me, is none of the newcomers asked me for advice, not one. They never asked me about what I've seen. They never asked me what the hills, the forests, or the streams used to be like. I always thought that you had to KNOW a little bit about something before you could fix it. But, here we are fixing things again. I guess I'm glad that “Oregon is gone” he would probably “rip somebody apart like a buzz-saw”.
Robin Shelley...speaking of nice people,
I just found out that my favorite new friend is the daughter of a Laytonville logger,... and your sister-in- law...Sheri. Small world!
Did that make me laugh when I found out.
Makes me laugh, too, OMR. You don't know how hard!
"They couldn’t have come at a worse time. The hillsides of Humboldt County had just undergone the most intensive land disturbance in recorded history, as a result of the post World War II logging boom. Hillsides were stripped of their protective forests, roads criss-crossed the slopes in all directions and many areas were burned after the logging was completed. When large rainstorms slammed into these slopes, most of the water quickly drained off. The results were catastrophic. Towns were submerged. Bridges were swept away. Roads were washed out. Two dozen deaths are attributed to the floods of 1964, during a winter when nearly twice the average rain fell on the North Coast."
http://extras.times-standard.com/150/look_back2.asp
Dear Anon 3:32
Thank you for the newspaper clipping. It makes for fine reading.
My explanation of the flood is boring, and rather tedious, and only the stout of heart and mind will try to understand what I will say. However, I think that it comes from a position of honesty, and the experience of having known the people that lived off of the land in the pioneer days. Please bear with me and give me a honest chance. I have nothing to gain from lying about the flood. I don’t care how it happened, what caused it, or who’s fault it was. But, I did see it, and I feel that many people, for some reason that I can’t fathom, want to get it wrong or blame it on someone. WHY?
The old timers that depended on spring water for their livestock and drinking water said that if we had 4 inches of a good slow soaking rain in May, that would be all they needed. It was their contention that the early rain’s water would run out before the summer was over. The last late rains that soaked in were the ones that would get them by the longest.
If you think real hard about it you will understand that a hillside
(Newcomers will call them watersheds) can only hold so much rain water, no mater what is growing, or not growing on it. Heavy rain water runs off.
If the same storm conditions had happened in 1840, I very much doubt that it would have made as much as one foot of difference in the ultimate level of the flood. Heavy rains run off. Due to the fact that the Indian people kept the hillsides (watersheds) clean by burning them, the flood may have been as bad or worse. I feel that any difference would be negligible.
Now, I really don’t give a DARN what you think caused the flood, but I am tired of hearing that it was the loggers that caused it. Some of us saw it rain, and believe me, anyone who saw it rain just before the flood was cramped in fear of what was going to happen. Most people expected the flood to be much worse than it was, judging by the rain that they saw.
Is anybody still reading? It’s harder to get knowledge to soak than rainwater.
my dad said it rained 10 inches in one 8 hour period.this was in laytonville/garberville area. 1954-1955
Part I:The 1964 flood was the mother of all floods, nothing comparable in Indian memory, how much damage would have happened had it happened 100 years previous is unknown. Some ol'timers said:
"T: It took awhile. When they were logging way back it wasn't bad. That didn't seem to bother it
for awhile cause they were so far back in there. But eventually there was a certain amount of it
had to come down... the creeks get full of debris and stuff and then when they bust loose, why it
just, it has to come down there's so many steep canyons and the water has to go someplace. It's
going to take a certain amount of silt and dirt with it when it goes........then they started logging where you look across from the bluff in places right near the river. And then the silt started coming down when we got heavy rains. There was nothing to hold it. The brush was gone andeverything else...that mud would just be streaming down those side hills. I talked to the Forest Service and they said, "No, that didn't cause it". In my mind it did. When you get all that silt
coming down and all the brush and timber is gone there's nothing to absorb it. It filled up them
holes, all my favorite fishing holes. It just wasn't the same after they started logging and we had all them heavy rains... and the river stayed muddy for a long time after a heavy rain instead of
clearing up like it did when the mud wasn't coming in... the country was a mess in them days."
....."What happened during the flood that made such a radical change was that all of the tributaries that served as the incubators were stripped. They became real wide gullies and so much dirt and logs came down those strips that they just stripped all the overgrowth, the vegetation that shaded the stream and kept it cool.
And also all the deep holes and pockets where the adult fish would go in and spawn were all taken
out. So each one of those streams became like a freeway, being basically flat. So we lost all of
our incubators. And when you lose all the incubators then you no longer have return fish that use
those channels. I could name stream after stream that happened to."
"E: Would some devastation (to incubators) have happened regardless of logging?
G: It would have happened to an extent, but not nearly as severe. Culled logs at that time would
pile up in the stream beds at the bottom of the mountain. They weren't required to pull them out
and so, there were just an awful lot of logs. At the time, prior to the flood, it actually enhanced
the fishery because they created pools and pockets and they created shade and cool water. We
were really enjoying it. Every time somebody would log in a new area and open a road we would
go up there and discover a creek. Cedar Creek is an example; the logging in there just created all
kinds of pools and small dams where the fish piled up. And so there were a lot of them and we
thought it was great. Well, we learned after the flood that when you get an over abundance of
water why it moves those things and when it did it just gutted them all."
Part II:
"... in other words, the biggest mistake we made is when we went in (post '64)and cleared all the creeks. Thinking that we were enhancing the habitat, we ruined them, destroyed them. The fish need those waterfalls and those pockets. You don’t need to go there and make a freeway out of it. The water turns warm.
G: Following the flood we spent millions of dollars cleaning out all those tributaries, and they
just went in and destroyed them.
"With regards to timber harvesting he believes the Forest Service made some serious mistakes in
the past - bad practices such as clear cutting in known slide areas should not have been allowed.
He believes logging should not have been allowed in main drainages, and that there are other
values besides timber which need to be considered - wildlife and aesthetic values in particular.
“There is a right place and a wrong place to log - I always felt they came too close to the river in
the watershed.” He spoke about the fact that the Forest Service was not given a choice in these
matters; orders to harvest were mandated from Washington, and Forest Service employees who
objected were told to do their job or someone else would be found to replace them who would do
the job."
Though these interviews are from Trinity River residents, I believe that the information applies to the Eel River situation and complements the story being told here.
After reading through these interviews I believe there is plenty of blame to go around.
Balance includes all sides of an issue that is actually grey, though the black and white pixels are most obvious.
What I remember about Dec. 1964 was that it snowed & froze, then snowed some more until the snow was probably a foot or more deep on the Long Valley floor & then it rained. And rained & rained & rained in what seemed like Biblical proportions. People began to wonder if it would ever stop. I'm not sure who to "blame" for that.
ROBIN!you need to blame the indians,they were probably doing a RAIN dance????
in the nineteen twenties,the old timers were telling my daddy that it doesn't rain like it used to.well!in 55&64 it rained pretty good,and folks!!its coming again!!!!!so don't build a house close to outlet creek!!
Well Robin, all the fault for the 55 and 64 floods rests on our last President.
Okay, we have two anons, it's getting confusing to those who are outsiders and trying to follow. So try to give us a clue as to which one is which. I don't think "Oregon" would have gotten all pissy if he had known who was posting about logging, because they are on the same side.
Now, I want to talk to "Researcher Anon". The stories that you dredged up about the careless logging are all true and accurate. I agree with the old timer.
Like I could have said it myself. The loggers weren't perfect. Some skidded their logs right down the creeks, If I was forced to admit it, I've taken a few logs down the creek myself. That is why I welcomed the forest practice acts, where everybody had to play by the same rules, and the rule was that loggers could no longer skid down the creeks. Sadly, Canada and other foreign countries don't have to play by those rules. Not fair!
Now that we have cussed loggers, and admited that they are worthless bastards, let's get back to the floods. The fact that loggers are worthless bastards doesn't hurt their feelings, some of us are proud of it. But, it doesn't take a way from the fact that LOGGING DIDN'T CAUSE THE FLOOD. Rain did. You continue to have no idea how much it rained! As anyone who saw it can attest to. RAIN! Warm hard rain on a deep snow pack, as Robin told you. She saw it, Oregon saw it, I saw it and many other believers saw it.
I have tried to explain how hard it rained for years and the conversation always turns to “Damn Loggers Caused the Flood”. Nope, rain! When I die the conversation will turn back to how the damn loggers caused the flood. Damn the loggers all you want. It was RAIN! Like nothing could possibly soak up. Not the Indians OR the Whitemans watershed. RAIN!
"Part I:The 1964 flood was the mother of all floods, nothing comparable in Indian memory," was the chosen first words of that long post.
The reference to Indian memory was from the link that that anonymous refered to.
If that was a mere logger bashing, it was an oldtimer doing the bashing. I read the long post as heavily indicting the Forest Service, I also learned how the initial stream restorations weren't done right (before the newcomers), I learned how logging made streams and falls and spawning territory sometimes, but a once in a 100 year rain ruined that. I like to listen to the oldtimers, all of 'em.
Thanks for all the kind words Ernie.
My opinion on the '64 flood (which I am old enough to remember but not old enough to remember much beforehand) is that the rain was astoundingly intense. There was snow first and then warm rain on top of it but some of the logging practices exacerbated the problems. We would have still had a terrible flood without the logging though.
Kym, I will always have kind words for you.
We would have still had a terrible flood without the logging though.
Exactly! And it is my contention though unprovable that it would have made little difference what the loggers did.
"Part I:The 1964 flood was the mother of all floods, nothing comparable in Indian memory,"Yet across the highway, in Richardson's Grove, there is a tree with two layers of roots from being silted in. Much above the '64 flood level.
Curiouser and curiouser
OMR, it is a small world. Not laughing here as I try to be hiddened. Not much luck there with Ernie and Robin chirping about this old fart.
Then there is this new anon that knows me and that is really scary. At first I thought about Loren writing to Ernie's blog but it is not him I,m sure. It all boils down to the young folks like Robin Shelley. I do know a few people older than me, Ernie comes to mind here.
Well, it's somebody you intentionally scared the hell out of, Oregon. That ought to be a clue. Or, are there so many of those incidents that you really have no idea who it could be? Not Loren, for sure. Hey! Maybe it's one of those Newland boys... what were their names? Greg? Jimmy? Something like that. Are they still around? You've probably scared them more than once!
Jamie?
those loggers back in the DAY!well,they just went in and logged the easy good stuff!nothing small,nothing with a lot of snags or limbs.they didn't clearcut back then either.they left a lot of vegatation in their wake.after a couple of years,even the skid roads were over grown with brush.so don't blame the loggers for a lot of rain and flooding!BTW,i'm a new ANON!!
dang Oregon, you have a reputation for scaring little kids and you still make it into suz's happy little dream. i am soooooo jealous. what is your aftershave?
is it that logger machismo? i am just a chubby greylonghair and i get nowhere with suz types...help your brothers....what is your secret? i know i am a hippie and you are a logger but i need your help with the women!
ps. not anonymous, omr. commenting before coffee again. sorry.
just to give another point of view again, i appreciate all those logs that floated out into the ocean. there were no wetsuits back in those days and spyrock was mostly a body surfer anyway. we used to have these old timers who came to the beach every day that would make fires out of your logs, and at kelly's cove by the cliff house maybe you would last two hours before you started turning blue from the cold. crazy carol was always queen of the fire and had this following of young cute female bodysurfers. of course, they didn't wear regulation swimsuits in those days, just a bandana over the pixels. and if it fell off in the water nobody seemed to mind. of course, females were a lot hairier in those days. no barbies in that water. and they didn't mind making sure that every part of them dried out. of course, everyone thought i was crazy for bodysurfing in that cold water. but there's nothing like watching the sun set with some honeys burning a humbolt county log.
"...but there's nothing like watching the sun set with some honeys burning a humbolt county log.
darn fine writing there spyrock.
really.
I was in Las Vagas with my family for Christmas during the 64 flood, and first heard of the flooding on television news. It was an unbelievable newscast. We'd caught the news after it'd already began and didn't recognize for a few minutes where all of the devastation was happening. It was unreal - absolutely unbelievable. After covering our area and Humboldt they even showed the Sacramento Valley. Laytonville was without power, food, just about everything besides water!! for some time.
I believe it was the Red Cross Helecopters that landed near the 101 Ranch and Geiger's Market to drop hay for the stock and supplies for the town as there was no way in or out of Laytonville for some time.
We were delayed getting home as the lakes road was completely flooded. They let a few cars at a time through with long waits inbetween. My boyfriend at the time, now my husband had gone out of town to a school sponsored science trip with another friend. They couldn't get back either, and had to bunk in Willits until his dad could reach the boys going around the valley with his 4-wheel drive truck. It was against the highway patrols wishes, but after walking through the deep water for a while they met up with his dad. Everything was hell-bent for destruction here.
Once the road was reopened for the press, Katie Mayo and my dad, too, drove north and took pictures. The bridges were out and the watermarks on the trees are still unbelievable. It truly was like the rains of biblical times. I think we all thought it was the end of the world, ha.
Houses on the Dos Rios/Longvale Road washed off their foundations and lodged sideways, and I remember houses floating in the river up north. That was one full gorge of water. Whew!!
Cousin
Nature does shock and awe best. Can't even imagine the enormity of that flood. Talked to a native Ferndalian about the flood there and got some great stories about how they rode out several weeks of isolation. And the dead cows, ugh.
My first landlord in this area had just bought a group of riverside rentals only to lose many of his redwoods and his driveway to the new highway (talk about inconvenience to business, the construction of 101 was probably Hell for many tourist sites). Then the '64 flood took a few cabins away, and a point of land on the inside curve of the river.
I love to hear your stories of the Rain and I know the impact on those who lived through it is something we the "un-flooded" just can't get. (Did you like that one Ernie?)
Well, I think that you are getting closer. I've never been able to convey how hard it rained. The only thing that I been able to get across is that I think that it rained hard. But, in the back of everybodys mind, they keep thinking that those other factors contributed to the flood. Whereas I'm certain that they made little or no difference. The fact that trees and logs and houses ended up in the ocean didn't contribute to the flood. They were simply the visable drama of it. But, everyone thought that it had to be related. Again, it was the snow and rain.
I lived Around The Lake with my mom & dad in Laytonville during the flood & we watched the water rise up to our patio for the first & only time in all the years we lived there. We kept checking to see how high the water was in our backyard! Remember Johnny Cash singing, "How High's the Water, Mama?" That's what we were like.
My husband has some pretty horrid memories as he was living on the island of Rio Dell then.
Just so damned much rain!
Penny,
Dorothy Nist has some fabulous photos of the 1964 flood. I don't know how to contact her now but I'm sure somebody down there does.
I believe some of those helicopters were Salvation Army.
It's appropriate to also remember "Bunny" Hadley who gave his life piloting the Army Helicopers bringing relief to folks during the 64 flood. He'd be in his 80's now had he lived. Thanks Bunny for all you did and gave!
Was Major Hadley a relative of yours, Hans?
Yep Ern, she rained and rained until thar seemed to be no end. Just plain beating down sheets of rain and snow for days. It wasn't amusing at all; I know that some people were scared for their lives and they should have been. And you're right! The houses floating into the ocean and rivers had nothing to do with how hard it rained. It was good old Mother Nature showing off.
Robin, I haven't heard of Dorothy Nist's whereabouts for years. Loved to speed walk with her. She was quite the drill sgt. And, yes, I'm sure there were Salvation Army helicopters - perhaps not Red Cross, but they knew our town was in deep water doodo and they flew to the rescue.
This really concerns me, Oregon.
Did you really cut a redwood that had a fir tree growing out it's top?!! and wow, electric logging trucks!! Wouldn't want to use an electric logging truck in a rain storm would you? Good thing the power was out.
Cousin
Ooops. didn't mean that the heavy rains didn't cause the flooding thus the houses floating down river.
Well Cousin, I didn't really cut a redwood with a fir tree growing out the top, I was trying to impress suzy blah blah. I did cut mostly redwoods when I was cutting logs but this guy from Laytonville named Jimmy Pinches was a log cutter and he told me he cut a redwood with the fir tree growing on its top..
Oregon
Speaking of cutting logs, I live on a dead end road with about 6 or 7 places above me and needed to fall some trees across the road. I called up this youngester, a good friend of mine to help. I didn't want to hold up the traffic so I figured me and Jim could cut the trees, clear the road so the folks above me would not have to wait. Well as luck would have it Robin Shelley let her husband Jim, come down to help. I was disapointed when Jim showed up without a LEMON pie from Robin. I could have found somebody else to help me but was hoping for a great pie. She did send me a sack of horehound hard candy though. Life is good here.
Oregon
Dang-it. I didn't mention that me and Jim Shelley fell and cut those tree's today at my house today.
My Aunt Elsie gave me the first horehound candy when I was very young and it is still my favorite to this day. Better than rootbeer.
Oregon
I am sure that You Ernie, go back and read these comments and so do I. I do notice I repeat myself. I see I have lots of "gots" on one of my comments here. I don't worry to much about it as I guess you know what I am saying. However I do like redunticies. "Dumb weatherman" comes to mine and I have more but I will refrain. Maybe one more, " Wonderful suzy".
Oregon
hey Oregon, you like redundancy Oregon? LOL! A man after my own heart! Suzy loves redundancy, LOL, hahaha! -- i loves it enough to say it twice, Suzy loves redundancy -LOL! hahaha --second only to superficiality... LOL! but hey my man Oregon, check this link out my man... and read about how i edukated em over at Heraldo's blog about something about what i think about the "dumb weatherman".
i'll say it again, the dumb weatherman, and man yuo don't wanna get me going on that one again twice again or Suzy might never shut up again.
oxo
s
I didn't really cut a redwood with a fir tree growing out the top, I was trying to impress suzy blah blah.
Oregon, Suzys impressed even more by a good fib than a tree with whatever growing out of it... sigh!
huggles
s
Oh, yeah, Oregon's a regular Paul Bunyon... no comment about Babe, Suzy...
Oxymoronic!
"Other people that Jeff aligns himself with is “Earth First”. Sorry Jeff, you lost me there! They are just not responsible people. But, Jeff adopts their tactics. This is his contingency plan when he loses; “I cannot see this project going through, and if it does, we will put a stop to it through non-violent resistance.”"
What's wrong with non-violent resistance, Ernie? Are you against freedom of speech? That's surprisingly un-American for you to say that.
"One important reason that I would take Kym's opinion over Jeff Muskrat is that the whole right side of his blog is dedicated to informing you how you can send money to him, to support his great battle against the people that are going to ruin Richardson's Grove for no reason."
Actually, no. I don't accept donations, I am strictly pro-bono. Take note of the title page of the Tree-sit blog page header:
"After the success of two long-running forest campaigns, this blog is dedicated to all high altitude peaceful and non-violent civil disobedience. Here, YOU can post news and info for your action...You can also help defend our Earth by contributing to these noble actions. We are an info source only."(http://humboldtforestdefense.blogspot.com/)
I work really hard for my money, and I use it occasionally to help tree-sitters. The link is for NEC's donation bin for http://saverichardsongrove.org/.
You may have me confused with Shunka of NCEF. I have no affiliation to him, I don't know any activists that do.
"Jeff, The REASON is to make the least environmentally destructive route in the north coast LEGAL for truck traffic. No other method is better. Not the bypass, not leaving it the way it is. Chances are the Richardson's Grove trees will be healthier on completion of this project. Because, believe me, nobody wants to screw up on this one!"
What! Healthier? I think you already screwed up that one, Ernie, by putting the words "project" and "healthier" in the same sentence regarding the Richardson Grove redwoods. You are starting to sound like a lawyer or politician.
Have ANY of you actually hiked the project? Taken photos of the proposed layout? There is a massive Old Growth Tree that the new allignment will magically and mysteriously pass through. The markers that Cal-Trans placed have a giant redwood in the middle of the proposed allignment. Go ahead. Check it out for yourself.(http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu287/RichardsonGrove/richard006.jpg)
It is the only yellow tagged marker right next to the highway on the east side south of the bridge and south of the campground entrance. It is also the only marker that is NOT alligned with the curvature of the other markers, putting the Old Growth tree in question smack dab in the middle of the proposed allignment.
I don't believe that Cal-Trans is being completly honest about the size and age of trees to be affected. Neither does Scott Greacen from EPIC:
"The DEIR concedes that several of these ancient trees will be affected by construction activities, and in some cases the realignment will move the roadbed even closer to the trees. The list of trees to be affected is staggering: 40 trees, with nearly half of those over 6 feet in diameter and several in the range of 10-15 feet in diameter. The DEIR plainly acknowledges that adverse effects to large trees may be a significant impact to this unique natural community."
I must ask: Why would anyone trust the opinion of Ernie Branscom in regards to the affects of construction in and around Old Growth? Are you an expert on Redwoods? How much destruction have you taken part in our forests in your lifetime? Cutting down trees is much different from saving them.
These trees are THOUSANDS of years old. The effects may take up to a hundred years to notice. A human life is only a blink in the eye compared to how long these Ancient beings have stood.
What right do you have to take their life, or to advocate for their construction?
Shame on you, Ernie, for spreading mis-information. The violence is in those who can't leave what is left(less than 3% remaining of Ancient forests) to be enjoyed by those whose life is not focused by greed.
Actually, the more Jeff talks, the more he reveals. Ha!
"What right do you have to take their life, or to advocate for their construction?"
Oops! A slip, but not necessarily Freudian. I meant destruction. :)
Jeff
I’m sorry to have taken so long to get back to you. I’ve been otherwise occupied.
I’m all for non violent resistance, when it is warranted. I’m also all for apple pie, motherhood, and America. My personal favorite pie is local huckleberry. But, you accuse me of being against non-violent protest, when I’m actually against you protesting after a completely American process, that I highly approve of, when the project has been put before the public for a complete review and analysis. After all of the criteria of a legal process have taken place, and you have lost your bid to halt the project, then you advocate non-violent resistance. That is unfair, impractical and dangerous. I don’t want to mention it, but that is what happen in the case of Gypsy Chain. I’m sorry, but I don’t think that the redwood tree that he was trying to save was worth his life. To stand under a falling tree is foolish. It not only killed him, it changed the life of the logger that fell it forever. That kind of radical foolishness only gets people killed, and it distracts from the real issues that should have been on the table. Unruly hooliganism only turns thinking people against dealing with the real issues. Instead of wearing masks, making up “Forest Names” and acting like fools, why not clean up, put on some clean clothes, and plead your case in front of reasonable and responsible people?
I went to your website, Tree Sit Blog, and I encourage others to do so too. I find it filled with many inaccuracies and much drama. First, they are not widening Richardson’s Grove. They are realigning it. A subtle difference I agree, but it is important to be accurate about something as important as the beautiful grove. You drag many Red Herrings across the path of the readers to distract them. You talk about Pacific Lumber and their terrible logging practices, I agree. You talk about the hooty owls and marbled murrelet like they are certainly going to be killed. I have a family of Blue Jays that nest in the eaves of my house, in the top window, in full view in my family, the dog, and the television. They come back every year. I have a doe that beds down in my front yard. If there are any of the animals that you describe nesting in the Grove, I’m sure that they won’t be discouraged either.
The most important item that you talk about is the roots of the old growth redwood. Minor root trimming is not going to damage the trees any more that the thousands of other trees that I can point out, that are strong and healthy, that roads were built through back in the Eighteen Hundreds.
As I’ve told you, I consider myself to be a true son of the north coast, and a true environmentalist, before the charlatans that are out there now gave environmentalism a bad name.
This time I want you to heed what I have to say. Don’t put words in my mouth, or make me into something that I’m not. The reason that I advocate the realignment of the Grove is because it is the LEAST ENVIRONMENTALY DAMAGING method of making the highway legal for modern and fuel efficient trucks. A bypass is not a good alternative because it would be a mucky mess, and kill thousands of trees, not to mention loss of wildlife habitat. That is just a distraction, because you and I both know that a bypass will never happen.
What I would like you to do is realize that if you lose, it is going to do no good to swing from the branches. I would like you to realize that the North coast needs legal trucks, the road will probably be realigned, and you should ask for some real environmental improvement to mitigate the perceived loss of the trees in the grove.
Thank you Ernie for your response.
I think you would be surprised about how much we both have in common. I'm hardworking, freedom loving, and go by the name of "Jeff", in town and in the woods. That is my birthname. My nickname "Muskrat" has stuck with me ever since grade school. Kids can be pretty mean. But I embrace my fate.
I try to see all sides of every issue. I have a hippy girlfriend. But I have a shot gun, a chainsaw, and I fall politically somewhere between Libertarian and Socialist, if you will.
I have much respect for the hardships that the pioneers of Humboldt had to endure, in regards to the rise and fall of employment in timber and fish. The employment opportunities that supporters of the project are hoping for will only enslave the local population with minimum wage jobs within uncaring corporations. How is that a good thing?
I feel that the project is opposed by a majority of residents. This has also been demonstrated in Op/Eds in the local papers(aside from the supporting op/eds that were bribed by Headwaters funding). This reality will be even more overwhelming for you in the near future.
It's important for you to fight for this if you feel that the alligment(or widening) of the 101 is a personal and crucial battle for you participate in.
So do we...
And if we have to climb to the highest branches in the Grove, we will. However, I feel that this battle will be on the ground, and with a massive movement to block the project. By hippies, rednecks, and local business owners alike.
I do hope to see you there, Ernie. It doesn't matter what side you are on. The important thing is that you take action for what you believe in. That is the true spirit of Americans, found more so in old timers like yourself. I wish that spirit could be found in younger generations as well. Our country would be in a much better state.
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