Thursday, September 8, 2011

Who came first...God or Man?

This is a tale for the smartest of my friends, people who have led simple lives, but are the smartest people that I know. It often amazes me the things that simple people can figure out, or just seem to know, that some very educated people never seem to get.

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac? He laid awake all night wondering if there really was a Dog… I know, most of you have heard the joke before, some of you don’t get it, some of you think that it’s funny. Some of you worry that it’s sacrilegious and worry that God might be offended.

Myself? I’m the one that the joke was written about. My life has been completely filled with worry and wonder. I know that my brain doesn’t work like most people’s brain. I worry that something might be wrong with me, and I wonder if it might be okay to not be like everybody else. I’ve always had a deep desire to fit in. But, strangely, I’ve always wanted people to accept who I am rather that try to be what they want me to be, so sometimes I fit, and sometimes I don’t. I had a friend that once said “ The tail follows the hide”, so I am what I am. Shakespeare said: “First, to thine ownself be true”. Shakespeare is as close to being a God in my life as anybody, so I try to adhere to his wise philosophy on life.

As a very young person, I started questioning everything. I had an uncle that called me “Yabbut the rabbit” because whenever somebody tried to tell me something, I would almost always come back with questions. I would start with “Yeah, but…” so I was called “Yabbut the Rabbit. I never really believed in Santa Claus, because I had a lot of cousins around that were both younger and older than me. They were anxious to trick me, so I was always suspicious of everything that they said. It was easy to ferret out of them that, yes indeed, Santa was really mom and dad, and not a “real person” at all.

Smug that I couldn’t be tricked, it never really occurred to me to wonder if Mickey Mouse was real. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Mickey wasn’t real. Everybody laughed at me that I was dumb enough to think that Mickey Mouse was real. Can you imagine the feelings of a small child that believed fervently in Mickey Mouse to find out that he was not real? I was filled with grief, like I had a best friend that had just died. My grief alone was bad enough, but on top of that, I had to put up with being ridiculed by my cousins and school friends. I vowed that I would never be fooled again. I started to be suspicious of everything.

You know where this is heading, we’ve been there before. At a certain point in my life, I started to question God, and double-especially religion. People that walked on water, turned water to wine, lived a thousand years, hung out in the sky with their winged angels and stuff like that. And, other wildly far-fetched things, that looked like another trick to me. Just like always, I only accept things that are tangible. My euphemistic phrase is, “things that can be hit with a hammer”. If it doesn’t pass my “Hammer Test”, it isn’t real.

Now, this is my same old-saw that you have heard way too many times, but I have a new twist… They are doing a scientific study about belief in God. I turns out that it is a “what came first, the chicken or the egg” story. The new theory is that God did not invent man, but conversely, man invented God. That has always been my conclusion. I often wondered why man would make up such far fetched stories as a person hears about religion and Faith. I was at a funeral one time where the young mother of a young child had died. The minister was telling the child that her mother was in the arms of God, and that someday, years from now, the child would be reunited with her mother. I was watching what I would call a deliberate lie, it occurred to me that maybe the myth about God was invented to give us assurance where there really was none to be given.

I have often admired Godly spiritual people, people with a strong faith, and a deep belief that God’s will was the best option. What ever happens, it is Gods will, and God works in mysterious ways. Too many times though, I find myself wishing that there was a God up there in that cloud that really does listen, because a have a few real bones to pick with him. I don’t care how mysterious his ways are, he is simply not fair to the children that he supposedly loves.

The scientists think that man is basically benevolent to their fellow humans. Man’s instinct is to aid mankind. I have a firefighter friend that describes being a first responder as “The dues you pay for the life you get”. I think that mankind makes up “God” as the mythological father that is always there to take care of the things that we can’t.

Here is some pretty interesting reading on the subject of “Who came first, God or Man
 
 

118 comments:

Stephen said...

Ernie, no atheist can tell people anything about God because atheists have no experience with spiritual consciousness. It's exactly like a color blind person telling people who can see colors that there are no colors, everything's black and white and shades of grey. Until atheists have had a religious experience, actually used their brain's evolved capacity for processing spiritual experiences, atheists, including atheist scientists don't know what they're talking about. Clueless and worse, fabricating false science around their brain disability. What you atheists have yet to discover is the mysterious WHY any successfully evolving animal where success means developing those traits which help with survival would ever put so much time and energy into dealing with supposedly fictitious invisible forces? And please don't trot out that worthless science explanation that it's all only for social bonding. That' bull because any number of human activities can fill that role, e.g. wedding ceremonies, playing music together, etc. Nope, human beings started responding to spiritual reality underlying our material world starting at least 40,000 years ago with no real sign of this fascination with God dwindling in our modern times. Even scientists get the bug..

Ernie, you're just mentally disabled and don't know it. Sorry for pointing it out to you but somebody's got to do it lest you continue on hopelessly bewildered with you infirmity..

Anonymous said...

Like I have always said, "just because somebody said it, doesn't make it true."

Oregon

Ernie Branscomb said...

Stephen
You are probably one the most Godly and religious people that I know. Your description of me is very apt. I truly am “color blind” to God. Maybe the two of us could volunteer for the study. We could be the yin and the yang of it. I could reason with you, and you could pray for me, then see which works best. Somehow I feel that we would still be in a stalemate. For some reason, tigers don’t change their stripe.

One thing that you got wrong though, is I think of an “atheist” as someone who denies that there is a God, and campaigns against the belief in God. I call myself an “Agnostic”. I will believe in God when he taps me on the shoulder. Then it will be “You and me God” all the way. I will say that, it will have to be more proof than hocus-pocus. I don’t intend to jump off any bluffs and pray to God to save me, you can if you want, but I’m sure that there is some Biblical saying that protects fools from doing such things.

I’m, also, willing to believe that maybe some people can see in infrared and ultraviolet, but I would want to see some proof. If they can prove, that indeed, they are not color blind, and they can see the whole spectrum, I will believe it. It is very comforting for me to trust in reality. It is comforting for some people to believe in spirits in the sky.

I also believe that most people that try to change my mind, do so out of genuine concern for my “immortal soul”, that is separate from my “life source”. But, others are quite satisfied with just being holier than me.

One thing that makes me happy is, I don’t see the religious folks fairing much better than us agnostics…

charlie two crows said...

“My life has been filled with worry and wonder” you could give this statement the “Hammer Test” and see if your fears are valid? Happyness really “IS” the journey!
The brain always gets in the way of the heart. Peace*

Eating Crow said...

Please remove my comments. I was wrong. Sorry!

Stephen said...

"You are probably one the most Godly and religious people that I know."

Well, there's your problem right off the bat, Ernie. Discernment. I mean if you're thinking I'm an example of one of the most Godly and religious people..for Christ's sake, what is the matter with you?

Oh, yes, I do get religious visions and foolishly act upon them as I feebly follow the will of my heavenly Father and Mom above but it's hard not to chuckle and smirk at any religious posturing I make. I can't sit still five seconds so meditation is out and hardly ever step foot in any church. Buddy Jesus and God as portrayed in Dogma the movie are my best friends. But it's true I've had tea with the Greek Orthodox Archbishop of the Holy Land dioceses and Paxcalibur, the religious icon I made following God's instructions, is housed with honor in the home of Nazareth's head Greek Orthodox priest. And ok, I am recognized by a few Muslims and Native American leaders as a man of God--not here though as I live out Jesus' wisdom that no prophesy bearer is accepted in his own community--gotta get that honor outside of Humboldt County. But you will find your real Godly people serving others like Betty Chin or here in Sohum, Siena and Bridgit, three far more religiously faithful people than me with my personal baggage claim check lost still lost in num-chuck Cairo..

Anonymous said...

The creation of Paxcalibur has been your finest achievement Stephen! You ARE a holy God Warrior, a warrior for peace and a warrior for a love of the Lord.

Ernie is mentally disabled. His blog is the perfect example. How far can one get from the Kingdom of Heaven? Well if Ernie is any indicator, a mentally defective mind can place VAST roadblocks between you and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ernie Branscomb said...

Charlie
No need to apologize. I didn’t find your words to be offensive at all. They did cause me more worry and wonder though. Your comments are always good, so just say what you mean or feel. They are honest thoughts and you sign them. You fit well with-in the kind of people that I honor.

“The brain always gets in the way of the heart.
There is no way that I can delete that comment. Nothing describes me better. I’m am the most gullible person alive, I will believe anything that anybody tells me, so I have to sort everything out, and realize that some people believe differently than me, and some people believe some of the most outlandish crap that can ever be dreamt up.

I would like to believe in fairy tales and pixie dust and other wonderful stuff. I would like to be like the little boy that believed in magic dragons. With all my heart I would like to believe in all the old Indian legends about the creation of the world, and all the stuff in it. But, just like the little boy that grew up and stop believing in magic, my magic dragon has returned to his cave to await another person that believes as a child will believe, to bring him alive again.

My heart really does live in a fantasy world, that’s why I rely on my brain to guide me. I would never try to change anybody’s mind that truly believes. In most ways I envy them.

Jon said...

Oh Fudd, it's dat pesky Yabbut. Me tinks it gotta a hammmerr! Nope, he is a gopher'n tat X hiss ten shell bat, but it could be a nine shell club. Just have to see if he yells 'FORE.

Hay YABBUT, knock it out of the park!

Well Ernie, you got me to thinking about a book written by Emmett somebody about the word MEEK. Seem to remember the book was investigating a man yakking to a bunch of folks sitting on a mountain side (could have been a hill, don't recall). Any way, this post of yours hammered in a memory of that word MEEK. Na, but then I could be wrong....Nope, Ernie is meek and armed with a brain and a heart. Its Greek to me, but both go hand in hand (heart and brain) but meek goes toe to toe.

spyrock said...

god is the dude who loves everybody no matter how stupid they pretend to be.

charlie two crows said...

Ernie, I've decided the potato came first. Then 13,000 years ago God wanted some fries. So god showed the Inca's how to geneticly alter the potato from poison to eat able. Then the Spanish came and took potato's back to Europe. But no one would eat them. Why! The potato wasn't in the Bible. But not Ernie s ancestors. They ate the shit out of UM! Then brought them to So Hum so we could have Tri_Tip and steak FRIES! And GOD was Happy!
The above story was not intended to disrespect God or Man! Peace*
P.S. SpyRock speaks truth.

Ernie Branscomb said...

steak and potatoes. Now, there is something that I can believe in.

Ernie Branscomb said...

Spy,
If there is a God. Did he love the terrorist Pilots that flew the plane into the World Trade Center?

I'm not saying this as a cheap shot, but I don't understand how somebody can pass that kind of stuff off as "God works in mysterious ways".

I don't believe that any "God" would allow such things. Yet "praise Allah" was on their lips as they killed those hundreds of people

Anonymous said...

If you don't think God would allow 9/11 then you don't understand that God gave man free will. It's on page one in the Bible.

Stephen said...

The Abrahamic religions are politically based, not spiritually based, i.e. all three major Abrahamic religions are involved in religious warfare and territorial aggression and control.

For Jews the territory to be conquered and controlled was Canaan/Palestine/the Holy Land and priests and scribes of Judah wrote their Torah/Tanakh scriptures to have their tribal war god, Yahweh, authorize the whole deal, genocide of Canaanites very much pleasing to this war god of the Israelites, Yahweh.

Alexandrian Jews came along in the second century AD after the Jews were driven out of Palestine and took the Jewish story and reworked it into a new Egypto-Judaism with Jesus Christ modeled on the Horus/Osiris mythologies. As God favors this Christian evolution of spiritual knowledge Christianity took off when Constantin saw in it a means to unify the Roman Empire's cacophony of differing religious factions. The type of Christianity accepted by Rome was Paul's theology, hence the reason why Christianity is known to scholars as Pauline Christianity as opposed to say, Gnostic Christianity which is my type of Christian belief. Christianity's territorial sights were on the whole world and so Pauline Christians went off to convert the world's people to the Christian faith. Like the ancient Jewish model, genocide of native pagan populations was a-ok with Pauline Christians so we got the Americas, Australia, NZ, and Africa Christianized with millions of innocents dying or enslaved in that process.

Next the Muslims come along again with a universal OUR WAY or YOU DIE religion but all along the Creator withheld blessing to Abrahamic religionists bent on territorial conquest. Religious wars is what Abrahamics produce and it won't stop until Abe is dethrowned by spreading the Gnosis, the Knowledge, the Truth, that Abraham and Sarah were Jewish remakes of Vedic deities Brahma and Sarasvati and the whole Abrahamic religious movement was a fraud from the very start.

But the Spirit of Christ is independent of Abrahamic foundation as the Gnostic Christians proved at the beginnings of the religion. Pauline Christians are still tied to the Abrahamic tradition which guarantees they will continue to engage in religious warfare until Abe is tossed out as the insane child abuser he and his Moloch type god were.

Anonymous said...

It was the Lord who struck down the 4th plane into the cornfield. God intervened that day to prevent the destruction of the White House.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of gagging. That's one the 9/11 myth commission didn't hear.

charlie two crows said...

No one has answered ernie's question: Does God Love the Terrorist? He wants to know if God loves every human on earth equally? If the answer is yes! Then ernie's next question is WHY? Stephen you need to explain that God's love for man is different than ernie's love for his wife. Ernie wants a one on one, mono to mono meeting with God! Something only Ernie can truly believe in. Come on people, Does no one have the answer?

Anonymous said...

An atheist is someone who simply doesn't believe in god. *A*theist.

The atheist doesn't have church meetings. Doesn't organize around atheism. The atheist simply understands that human beings tend to see the world around them the way they WANT to see it, not as it truly is.

Stephen is the one here with a body of opinions and beliefs that he cannot back up. All Ernie is saying is, he doesn't believe in god. And guess what, there is not ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence that even hints that god exists somewhere in then universe or exists at all. Who is the delusional one? Obviously its Stephen, but he's not alone.

charlie two crows said...

I guess Anon can't read! The question is; Does God Love The Terrorists that brought down the twin towers? A better question might be; DO terrorists and Christian Americans worship THE SAME GOD? Oh my that can't be!

Stephen said...

An atheist is someone who simply doesn't believe in god. *A*theist.

The atheist doesn't have church meetings. Doesn't organize around atheism. The atheist simply understands that human beings tend to see the world around them the way they WANT to see it, not as it truly is.

"Stephen is the one here with a body of opinions and beliefs that he cannot back up."

Bullshite. I have demonstrated the power of the Spirit of God when a God-given religious vision had me create the world's most spiritually powerful icon that graces the special meeting room in the home of Nazareth's head Christian priest, Abuna Hatoum who is the current Keeper of Paxcalibur. 500 plus Nazarean Arab Christians honored Paxcalibur and me in the courtyard of the Church of St. John in Nazareth at Easter in 2003 at the end of the annual Easter Procession through Nazareth, traditional home of Jesus. The Palestinian peace activist organization, Tent of Nations out of Bethlehem has asked to use the Paxcalibur image as their logo and they will become the second Keeper of Paxcalibur helping to find Pax's eventual home in Jerusalem where it will be honored for all time, all this the product of a hippie's spiritual vision and trust in God that our Peace Sign our generation gave to the whole world will be as honored as any religious icon, and that, my friend, is something no amount of public relations, political manipulation, or anything but people's respect for spiritual work can accomplish.

And this is outside of my other great spiritual vision that has now done another impossible thing: a unification of Holy Land spiritual prophesy with Native American spiritual prophesy. Two months ago I completed the Josephine vision quest after 13 years and now alongside the Sacred Bundle for White Buffalo Calf Woman in the hands of the Lakota Keeper Arvol Standing Horse there exists a new Bundle, Josephine's Bundle and a new Keeper of this spiritual vision that came unbidden to my daughter first, 14 years before me, and then to me, who carried out the spiritual instructions and formed a spiritual bond with the Northern Cheyenne elder who is the designated Keeper of the Josephine Bundle. This has never happened before in the New World, a conscious spiritual uniting of Old World and New and your local neighborhood prophet at large with God's guidance made it happen.

"All Ernie is saying is, he doesn't believe in god. And guess what, there is not ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence that even hints that god exists somewhere in then universe or exists at all. Who is the delusional one? Obviously its Stephen, but he's not alone.

I'm sorry but don't you know God is a Spirit and has no arms or hands to make your ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence? You foolishly think theists believe God is some big MAN in the SKY who can reach down and squash a sinner with some sort of huge thumb. Try spiritual influence conception instead and then come back and talk sensibly about spiritual influences on human behavior, human activity, human history, human civilization.

Dave Kirby said...

I'm pretty much in agreement with you E. I think mankind's greatest fear is to be alone. When he first glanced upward and saw the dome of stars he invented God. It's ironic that even now when I see some of the fantastic images from Hubble and other telescopes I am aware of a sense of wonder that is in its own way a spiritual experience.
I have met Christians that were wonderful people who lived their lives in the best traditions of love and compassion. And others who were ignorant judgmental jerks.
Some years back a Christian friend was ranting on about the Mormons. He wondered how anyone could believe Joseph Smiths story of the golden tablets and the rose colored glasses and how they had conveniently disappeared. When I pointed out that there is not one piece of archeaological evidence that Jesus of Nazareth ever lived he was shocked. The only place Jesus is mentioned is in the bible. The first account of his life was written at least 50 years after lived. He is not mentioned in any records of the time, Roman or other chronicles of the area.
It all comes down to faith. The most intangible yet important element of religion.

Anonymous said...

Stephen, what is the difference between your icon and the Ankh.

Anonymous said...

"God did not invent man, but conversely, man invented God"
You nailed it right there, Ernie.
End of story.

Anne on a Mouse said...

Presuming that man created God is the utmost in arrogant stupidity.

Ernie Branscomb said...

I've been gone today, I see it's been busy while I was gone.

I don't call myself an *A*theist because I'm not against God. I accept the possibility that there is a God, however far-fetched. I call myself an agnostic, because an agnostic believes that the concept of God is un-provable.

Stephen is the only one with a manifestation of Gods will in his “Paxcaliber”. Stephen sees that as proof that God exists, however, the fact that I also built a knife, just because I wanted to. Some might say that I did it with divine guidance, but I believe that I did it simply because I knew how.

There is a story about a Supreme Court Justice who had a stroke while he was in office. He was confined to a wheelchair, yet in his mind he was sure that he was kicking a football. He was kicking the football to prove that he was not damaged by the stroke. He was removed from his office over his very loud objections, and he couldn’t understand why people wouldn’t accept his proof, when it was obvious to everyone, but him, that he hadn’t moved out of his wheelchair.

Reality is what you believe in.

Anonymous said...

I don't necessarily agree that Ernie has a mental disability. I've observed that the problem is with his heart, which has not been able to advance and grow. As he says above, his heart, "really does live in a fantasy world". I think it's passed time for Ernie to get real. To start taking his heart feelings seriously. Unfortunately, I'm afraid he's too old and stuck in his ways.

charlie two crows said...

Stephen, Starts talking about his visions and creation.
Stephen starts sounding like big Jimmy down in redwood valley. You know Jimmy was a follower of the Pearl just like stephen. Rose, does this guy sound familiar?
Stephen, Ernie needs for you to explain John:3,16. Not that wagon load of stephen Dids!
Your piling on us!
Ernie has a measure of faith. He just needs to learn to use it! And don't take Kool-Aid from stephen! Peace*

spyrock said...

Spy,
If there is a God. Did he love the terrorist Pilots that flew the plane into the World Trade Center.
hi ernie, i'm fine that you don't believe in god. agnostic, i don't know what that word means. sort of sounds catholic or latin. i went to a catholic school but i was raised a methodist so i had to sit with the latinos from central and south america in the school cafeteria. actually, i am scotch irish and thats why my 5g grandfather left ireland for america and western pennslyvania in the mid 1700's because the catholics didn't want the scotish protestants living in ireland anymore. on my dad's side, i'm a direct descendant of patrick henry and i can prove it. so i have absolutely nothing to prove in regard to our nation's enemys. we invented that right to bear arms and that's why the japanese didn't invade america after bombing pearl harbor. because all those american legion guys wanted to shoot the japanese farmers just because they were japanese so they put them in internment camps. i think the japanese were the ones to invent the kamikaze or crazy person who rams their plane into something to blow it up thereby killing themselves in the process. i think they believed that they would be rewarded in heaven by sipping tea with a geisha girl waiting on them sitting beside their koi pond. i think those arab dudes were promised unlimited wives and eternal minutes on their cell phone.
of course, we responded to the japanese by droping the atomic bomb on hiroshima and nagasaki we have responded to 9/11 by invading iraq, killing saddam hussien because george bush said "god told me to do it" when it became apparant to everyone that he lied about them having weapons of mass destruction.
we also invaded afghanistan and killed bin laden the saudi who claimed responsibility for 9/11. although after listening to jessie the govenor, bush and cheney might have had the cia dress up like arabs and take out the twin towers just like the mormans dressed up like indians and attacked wagon trains to keep non believers from settling in utah. so it seems pretty obvious that depending on who your god is, he loves you but hates the infidel, especially that fidel castro in cuba. of course, all this talk of war and terror has nothing to do with the real god. but we aren't talking about the real god, are we? we are talking about crusader yahbut the rabbit. so i guess you will just have to ask george bush what he meant by god telling him to do it. and if he doesn't. i'm sure rick perry will.
especially since the one i believe in is beyond words and who am i, just a drop, to describe the ocean.

Anonymous said...

Stephen you're a fool. Paxcalibur is a fraud of a symbol. Your brand of theism is SO COMPLETELY SELF CENTERED that it is clear evidence that your mind is now hopelessly demented. You have twisted yourself into some sort of biblical figure. You think that because your mind shit out the vision of a sword that somehow you're special. You are special Stephen, but not because you are some sort of misunderstood christ-like figure. You're special because you did too many drugs over the course of your life. You're special because many of your brain cells are dead. You struggle every day to reconcile your guilt for your past behavior and you're desire to be special and above reproach. YOU ARE A FRAUD STEPHEN.

Anonymous said...

Anyone who can carve out a good living in a logging/lumber depressed area,can't be too dumb.....

Stephen said...

I am Spirit-driven. Sure, to many of you it does look like I'm another California crazy and I am, no doubt, because I do put God and work for God before anything else in my life, something that most people do not do for good sensible reasons. But that's my Calling. And I can't ignore it or else I feel a shirker of my job responsibilities. Sorta a spiritual work ethic I guess you'd call it. But, damp it, I do have great spiritual News for all of humanity and I cannot keep it hidden away underneath any bushel-basket because it's needed for the world.

Look at what I posted on As It Stands blog today about the Heartlands project. Do you know that my partner on it, Sparky, is the designated spiritual leader for the Bear River tribe? We are activists spiritually driven to help humanity. Two and half months ago Sparky and I and Bridgit were in Montana and South Dakota carrying out another one of my spiritual visions and one of Sparky's. My spiritual vision for this mission started 13 years ago with a month-long series of mentally received information coming about a Native American spirit woman. My daughter had the first vision of Her 14 years before me. Well, there's another spiritual story here that actually surpasses the Paxcalibur one in spiritual importance because it marks a spontaneously occurring spiritual unification, that an Old World spiritual tradition, the prophesy of the return of a Savior has been accepted into a New World Savior prophesy tradition. Go to josephinevision.info and see spiritual history in the making. And this vision, like the Paxcalibur vision, all happened through the movement of the Spirit, something atheists have not experienced but seem to feel free to give their complete lack of experiential knowledge and negative opinions about it to everyone else. Well, my calling keeps me off the streets and in a rent-subsidized apartment if not in a palatial estate and my Kool-it soda company and celestial travel agency revenues are doing nicely thank you..

Anonymous said...

I see now why Ernie does not post about politics and religion.

Oregon

Ross Sherburn said...

Oregon,you took the words right out of my mouth! LOL!

Lets talk about Horse Lizards and Blue Racers again.

skippy said...

You’ve opened up a Pandora’s Box, Ernie. An enigma, a conundrum... a mystery wrapped up in a burrito!

“God does not play dice… I do not believe in a God who maliciously or arbitrarily interferes in the personal affairs of mankind. My religion consists of a humble admiration for the vast power in that small part of the universe which our poor, weak minds can grasp. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws, but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations.”

“The main source of the present-day conflicts… lies in this concept of a personal God… The great moral teachers of humanity were, in a way, artistic geniuses in the art of living. While religion prescribes brotherly love in the relations among the individuals and groups, the actual spectacle more resembles a battlefield than an orchestra... The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer... I do not believe in a God who maliciously or arbitrarily interferes in the personal affairs of mankind… I believe in Spinoza’s God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.”

(Albert Einstein, 1879-1955)

Anonymous said...

the Paxcalibur vision, all happened through the movement of the Spirit

Oh sure it did. You are about as spiritual as a copying machine Steve, because Paxcalibur is no different then the ancient Egyptian Ankh symbol. Your "new creation" has been here for thousands of years.

charlie two crows said...

Hey ross, I shot a ground squirrel out the window. He was doing the breast stroke across the yard. These varments chew up the electrical cords on everything. The snakes follow their piss trail into the yard. So I poor gallons of my piss all around the fence so the rattlers stay away.
Powered fox piss works best. Fox is the only animal a rattlers fear. But the stuff is so expensive!

Anonymous said...

Stephen, when you had the vision of paxcalibur, I think you were watching too much History Channel in your publicly subsidized apartment.

Your design is eerily similar to one used by the third reich, just replace the peace symbol with the nazi one.

Maybe your damaged brain was making errant connections? Maybe you're really doing the work of the devil? Either way, I think we all can agree you're not very creative, in fact, you're probably just an old fraud.

On who's dime was it that you traveled to Montana recently? It surely wasn't yours. Are you and Sparky spiritually connected, or are you taking Sparky on a ride? How very christ-like of you Stephen.

Anonymous said...

I believe in Spinoza’s God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.

Just because Einstein was an intelligent scientist doesn't mean he had any insight when it came to spirituality. His belief in an impersonal and machine like god is a part of the problem. God IS personal and he DOES communicate to individual humans who take the time to listen. If only they would.

Anonymous said...

C2C's, put a pig in the yard. That will keep the snakes at bay but then you will need fly traps.

Oregon

P.S. Hogs, if you live in snake country is almost spiritual.

Anonymous said...

If God did'nt exist, would there be athiests?

Stephen said...

Anon 11:08, you're a total ass aren't you. You're like some little nine year old boy hiding in the bushes and armed with water balloons to toss at adults walking by and then run and hide again. You don't have any meaningful life so you attack those who do. Childish behavior and you need to grow up and respect elders and people of God doing positive things for the community.

Anonymous said...

You're not a person of god Stephen, you are a fraud. Your sword is a fraud. Your connection between the Native Americans and the christian god is a fraud (its also already been done with Mormonism). You are a cheap cliche of so many deluded theists. Stop taking advantage of Sparky and pay your own way in life.

charlie two crows said...

Oregon, Thanks for the tip. I think I'll buy a pot belly pig for the yard.
Ernie needs to take Anon and stephen down to the park and let them duke it out! They can slap each other with their bibles. When their done they can convert the homeless.
Stephen thinks he's a Knight's Templer. My be he will bring his sword to the fight.

Anonymous said...

"duke it out, slap each other, bring his sword to the fight."

My greatest admiration and approval goes out to all of the spiritual activists like Steven who don't stoop to name calling and violent solutions. Non-violence is the spiritual path and is one of the main lessons that some of these crude one's still need to learn in order that we may someday truly be able to gain peace and live together in God's kingdom. Blessings to the believers.
"Love one another". John 13:34

skippy said...

Uh oh, Ho-ho, and Oh no! Heavens to Betsy-- no need to read any further...

"Why is it that when we talk to God we're said to be praying, but when God talks to us we're schizophrenic?"
~Lily Tomlin

"God don't make no mistakes. That's how He got to be God."
~Archie Bunker

"Man - a figment of God's imagination."
`Mark Twain

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."
~Susan B. Anthony

"God is a mean kid sitting on an anthill with a magnifying glass, and I'm the ant. He could fix my life in five minutes if He wanted to, but no, he'd rather tear off my feelers and watch me squirm."
~Bruce Almighty, 2003

"God is a force more powerful than Mom and Dad put together."
Lisa Simpson, The Simpsons

"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you! He loves you. He loves you and he needs money. He always needs money. He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing and all-wise, but somehow He just can't handle money."
~George Carlin

Ross Sherburn said...

Charlie? Out of what window,did you shoot a Digger Squirrel?
Out of a house window or Vehicle window?
I've shot many a squirrel out of a pickup.Just call me lazy!!!

Ernie Branscomb said...

All this conversation is about peoples beliefs.

About eighty percent, maybe more, of the people of the world believe in “The One True God”. I've often questioned people, about if there was only One God in their religion, or beliefs. Almost universally, people reply that there was one true God. When I asked why people kill each other in the name of their one true God. How can this “One True God” allow all of this hatred for each other. I often get ridiculed for questioning “God”. Most Indian people claim that their God is just “One”. I thought that perhaps they believed that everything had a spirit, and that made up their Gods, and the One True God thing was a white man invention. But, they assure me that they always belived in One God.

Religious people usually have a pat answer to why people don’t have the same religious beliefs. The answer that I get, like the one above, where it was patiently explained, that it was “because God gave Man free will”. Then that explanation is always followed by some kind of a remark about how ignorant that I am.

The problem that I still have is: “Yabbut why’d he do that?” If he’s God, and all powerful, he could just take back his “free will”. He’s still God isn’t he? At some point it all just fades into Hocus-pocus for me.

I honor Stephens opinion as much as mine, or Charlie’s, or Spy’s, or anybody else’s. But, the problem is that nobody has the same answer about what “God” is, our how he came about. I just don’t have that faith that there is anybody up there in that Cloud that gives a crap about anybody.

Anonymous said...

I agree Ernie, but I believe in the spirit horse.

Oregon

sarah said...

I've shot many a wolf out of a helicopter, you betcha.

Anonymous said...

Ernie!!!!, please change the subject..

Oregon

charlie two crows said...

Ross, their striped digger squirrels. I shot it out of my house window. I had to come in from the desert for a week to do a kemo cycle. No biggie the kemo would likely kill the diggers. Its all poison.
Helicopter hunting bet that expensive!

charlie two crows said...

Ernie...In my family history Coyote is the creator,one God. And Raven is the spirit messenger. We believe the creosote bush was here before man. My grandmother pansy blossom was a shape-shifter.
That's a whole different deal.
Personally, I have one God. Peace*

Anonymous said...

Ernie, if you really want to find out something, the question to ask isn't, why doesn't God intervene at times and take back man's free will, but, why did He give man free will to begin with?

spyrock said...

The Abrahamic religions are politically based, not spiritually based, i.e. all three major Abrahamic religions are involved in religious warfare and territorial aggression and control
stephen makes a pretty accurate point here. the christians, jews and arabs all come from the same family. yet they only choose to identify with certain ancestors even though they have the same blood. somehow they have forgotten that they are brothers and have the same source. we are all citizens of planet earth.
we are all related.
another bit of news of great importanance is the fact that raccoons don't like talk radio. so if you are having a raccoon problem just turn on rush, hannity, and fox news.
in another vein, if someone would have pissed around the twin towers a protective shield would have been created that would have thwarted any enemy attack. old california indian ritual.

Robin Shelley said...

Charlie, is it illegal to shoot something from out of your house (or car) window? Aren't you supposed to be so many feet away from a dwelling when you fire a gun? Are you worried about the wrath of God if & when you break the law? Just wondering because cops, judges & politicians always seem to think God is on their side!

Indie said...

The human notion of God is hardly something that can be usefully examined using 'logical' argument. That approach is almost guaranteed to miss the point. Yet people still do it all the time.

Ernie Branscomb said...

Yes, but…
I’ve been a mechanic, of sorts, all my life. Machines are very finite and predictable. If gear “A” turns the right, gear “B” turns to the left, and so on, it never changes. It has no room for “wouldn’t it be nice if both gear “A” and gear “B” turned the same way?” Because, it doesn’t happen. The only place that something like that can happen is in the far fetched imagination somebody’s thoughts. There is no room for imagination, and “wouldn’t it be wonderful” in a machine’s operation. Maybe that’s what I like about machinery, it doesn’t lie.

Logic is the only thing that works for me, faith is just not consistent, nor reliable.

suzy blah blah said...

Man’s instinct is to aid mankind. I have a firefighter friend that describes being a first responder as “The dues you pay for the life you get”.

I believe "we are all one", but I don't believe in one god. I believe in many many many many gods. But the many many gods "are all one" LOL, like Indie said, you can't explore it logically.

Suzy doesn't doesn't know who made man, or who made God, but I know that we did make up the stories. I think that the gods in the myths and religious texts that we made, if read carefully, will be seen to represent forms that are inside of us. Organs of our spirituality, so to speak, like "that father that is always there". Always there, deep inside a person, an ancient form, the grandfather, inherited just like we inherit our physical organs. Your heart or lungs are similar to mine. It's the same with spiritual "organs". We share similar instincts, things like that. It's like the one who listens to her very real instinctual promptings, feels them, and more importantly acts on them. Just as surely as someone acts on their stomach grumbling. That's what can be interpreted metaphorically as following the god's advice, the "father" or the goddess, or fairygodmother, or whatever. It represents something -- in many stories you will find a figure who represents the instinct that you know is the right thing to do. Etc.

The stories are metaphors, like that of following your heart, following your instinct, and acting upon it "heroically", not so much unlike Ernie's firefighting friend. It's not literal or historical. It's not even about following the figure in the story, it's about recognizing and bringing out the thing inside you that the figure represents. Like for instance "the instinct to aid mankind" that Ernie spoke of.

charlie two crows said...

Robin, I will try to answer all of your questions. But I do perceive the tone of your comment that you may not condone charlie owning a fire arm! Now to the answers: I did not discharge a fire arm out my window. Next the rural area does allow discharge close to my house. Next I don't live under the 834 laws in the 5 books of the old testament. So no I'm not worried about the wrath of god. And no laws were broken. Poison is a bitter death for the ground squirrels. You may not approve. That's your right! As for the law dogs round here, they have never mentioned God. In the future I will refrain from talking about small animals that become hawk food. Peace*

Ross Sherburn said...

If you ever hear an animal die from poison,you will never ever use poiso again. its better to have a clean/quick kill!!!

Stephen said...

Let's compare symbols:

ankh

Women's peace symbol

Saif al Salam

Will the real Paxcalibur image please stand up.

Stephen said...

Women's Peace Symbol

women's peace symbol

Anonymous said...

Steven, I had mistakenly assumed that Ankh in your blue avatar photo was your Paxcalibur icon. I see the real Paxcalibur now and I take back the accusation that they were the same, as they are obviously not. Sorry, my bad.

Stephen said...

http://biomystic.org/visionof.htm

My warmest fan says:

"You're not a person of god Stephen, you are a fraud. Your sword is a fraud. Your connection between the Native Americans and the christian god is a fraud (its also already been done with Mormonism). You are a cheap cliche of so many deluded theists. Stop taking advantage of Sparky and pay your own way in life."

I'll tell that one to Sparky and he'll get a chuckle out of it because I paid his way. You forget Sparky and Wayne Moon and Barbara, all the Bear River members who opposed the casino commission have been since punished for years now for doing for working on the Heartlands project as that casino commission went on to become the Bear River Tribal Council. Sparky is homeless, Wayne is near homeless, and both get their per capita funds docked for various charges not leveled at any other tribal members, e.g. Sparky getting socked for $3000 upgrade repairs for the tiny skid row motel the tribe had gotten for him.

You say "fraud" pretty freely when you haven't any idea about all the people who have participated in the Paxcalibur mission. You just hate me or something and gotta slander me out of spite, out of jealousy that I've got a life, a great big one filled with amazing events? And no, Joseph Smith nor any European-American has ever done what I did. Mormonism is Abrahamic Old World Christian based with a token nod to Native Americans in Joe Smith's weird and unbelievable religious doctrines.

What has happened with the Christ Josephine vision is a true spontaneous unification of Old and New World spiritual traditions. I am European-American Christian and the Vision of the Spirit of Christ has been fully transferred into Native American prophesy. This has never been seen in America before. The closest comparison would be the Day of the Dead Native American holy day transferred into the Catholic All Soul's Day. But unlike that transformation which still left Catholicism the dominant religion for converted Native Americans south of our border, the Vision of Christ Josephine transfers spiritual authority from the Old World to the New World.

Here is where my second great spiritual mission story can be read: http://biomystic.org/visionof.htm

I know that to claim a religious prophesy bearing role in our times which is seeing the beginning of the End Times of organized religions is something most of you cannot believe is on the level. For me to report what has been accomplished in the Holy Land and in Montana/South Dakota is like trying to tell JW's that Jesus wants us to dance and sing Christmas carols and dress up for Halloween. But this is par for the course for my job description. When you guys start picking up stones to stone Stephen then I'll start to worry. Meanwhile, outside my village I am honored as a man of God by other men of God.

Ernie Branscomb said...

Suzy
Very very very very very very very good answer!

I told you she was smart!

"Suzy doesn't doesn't know who made man, or who made God, but I know that we did make up the stories. I think that the gods in the myths and religious texts that we made, if read carefully, will be seen to represent forms that are inside of us. Organs of our spirituality, so to speak, like "that father that is always there". Always there, deep inside a person, an ancient form, the grandfather, inherited just like we inherit our physical organs. "

Robin Shelley said...

No, Charlie, I don't care if you own a firearm or an arsenal. I also don't care where you shoot from &, like Ross, I'd prefer you shoot your pests rather than poison them. My comment actually had very little to do with you personally. I'm afraid you misunderstood what I was trying to say but never mind. I'm sorry if I offended you in some way. That was not my intent.

Stephen said...

Suzy
Very very very very very very very good answer!

I told you she was smart!

Well, Suzy, you're in trouble now that you're converting an atheist to your views. Of course, Ernie's just seeking the real truth of spiritual consciousness of God outside his own mind and doesn't realize it as all atheists do. It's why they are so fascinated with the subject of God, even devote whole blogs, internet talk forums to it, and here Ernie brings up the subject about every week at least.

Well, Ernie, you asked the wrong person about God. Suzy told you, "Suzy doesn't doesn't know who made man, or who made God, but I know that we did make up the stories. I think that the gods in the myths and religious texts that we made, if read carefully, will be seen to represent forms that are inside of us."

Well, I know who made man and even the identity of God 'cause God told me. Suzy only got part of it right that God is within us, but God's also running the whole shebang from top to bottom, from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation of physical space and time and everything in between. But here's the clue Suzy needs to complete the story of humanity and humanity's relationship to God, We are Holy One. Gospel of Humanity

Here's links to the other two great visions while I'm at it:
Josephine Vision
Story of Paxcalibur

charlie two crows said...

Robin, I'm sorry I miss read your comment. I hope I didn't hurt you in anyway. Sometimes my mouth gets ahead of my brain. I do apologize!Peace*

Robin Shelley said...

Mine, too, Charlie! No worries. Peace.

Ernie Branscomb said...

How about that... Peace in our time.

spyrock said...

this all reminds me of when the christians invaded scandalnavia. here we have st stephen trying to save thor the viking who believes in maxwell's silver hammer. and you know thor just doen't want to be saved. he just wants to hit stuff with that hammer. not to see if its real but because the act of hammering makes himself feel real. the native americans call it dance hammering. you just don't read or listen to something to learn it, you dance hammer it and make it a part of your being. this is the way you learn the medicine wheel teachings that have been passed down verbally for generations in the americas. so i think ernie is really on to something ancient with this hammertime business. but every one to their own cup of tea. st stephen is obviously dance hammering in his own way. out of the box true, but we need out of the box. but here we have another blacksmith forging the new world. the sword of peace.
the california indians had a character called kuksu, sort of a christlike figure who danced. the ghost dance and the white deer skin dance were meant to heal the mother earth. so i think you both are doing the same thing. each in his own way.

suzy blah blah said...

Well, Ernie, you asked the wrong person about God.

Steven, enlightenment is where you find it. Ol man river and I are collaborating on a work of literature: "Nott Perfickt - the legend of Suzy Blah Blah"
Now, thanks to your inspiration, I have got the title for a second volume. "The Wrong Person - the legend of Suzy Blah Blah II". Thanks.

Anonymous said...

If'in I cud type like Steffin,I'd have a lot to tell!!!!
Elmer Hurlbutt could be my witness!!

Ernie,do a thread on Elmer!!!

Shebang said...

I like the idea as the byline for your new advice blog...
"Asking Suzy Blah Blah--the wrong person to ask"

God being a woman, man probadly came first. This wasn't a trick question folks.

suzy blah blah said...

dear Shebang,
Man needs to slow down. Tell him there's no hurry. Tell him to take his time, there's no place to get to. And to relax. It also might help if you get on top ... Good luck. Science will be interested in the new findings.
Suzy Blah Blah, the wrong person to ask

charlie two crows said...

Another Day Above Ground!
PSA is negative 0.1
Another six months no terrorist cancer.
But like all terrorist's
Their good at hiding.
I gave a lot of thought to the organ story suzy blah told. Maybe I'm like the cat in the Alien movie.
Maybe something snuck into this life with me. Just like with the cat in that capsule
No matter how you believe,at least believe in something. You see all of us will take our last breath the same way! Wish in for another!
Peace* from the Desert.

Buxom Lass said...

Thanks so much for the practically advice Suzy, you know us gals are just trying to get more shebang for our bux.

charlie two crows said...

Ernie... This saturday is the 230th. Aniversory of the US constintution. Hope every one gets a copy and reads it again or the first time.
Peace* from the desert.

olmanriver said...

C2Crows-- congrats on that latest report!

Ernie Branscomb said...

Been busy again...
Very good news Two Crows. My Dr. tells me that I can say the I'm "cured". He repeated; he said "Not in remission, but cured". My PSA is ridiculously low.

I remember more than one person dieing a painful death from Prostate cancer. We are very lucky to live in this world of modern medicine. I always tell my doctors thank-you. I make sure that it is a very personal thank-you, including a box of chocolates.

While we are on this subject about “God”. I had a Doctor that worked in Saudi Arabia tell me that a Sheik brought his injured falcon to him, and told him that if the bird died that the Doctor would also die. The Doctor was able to save the falcon and the Arab did not thank him but thanked Allah for saving the bird. The Doctor said that he was highly offended that the Arab did not thank him, but gave all the credit to God.

Stephen said...

I'm waiting for my blood tests taken for this year but every year since my prostate surgery the psa levels have been negligible. Men who have it beware of the watchful waiting if your family has prostate cancer history. My dad died of it because he waited too long for surgery. I almost waited too long I think, when I took a useless year trying the essiac herbal cure which didn't do zip, so beware herbal cures too. Nasty stuff but then all cancers are.

Ernie Branscomb said...

Stephen
I’m glad that you are in good health. There is a reason that mainstream medicine is so popular… it works best.

My neighbor, a Christian Scientist, died an excruciatingly painful death from his infirmities. They called in the people that pray over their sick and injured. After all of the praying, and he finally died, the family was elated that he surely went straight to heaven, because he was such a strong Christian.

Anonymous said...

Scientology is the one true religion. Pick up Dianetics, it will change your life.

Stephen said...

Ernie, some Christians do not understand how God works and think healing has to be done through prayers instead of seeing how God might work through trained doctors and modern medicine. It's ignorance and lack of education, even religious education, in fundamentalist church communities that keep this stupidity going.

charlie two crows said...

Anonymous.. All do respect to your beliefs. I remember an interview where Hubbard admitted to having a sugar bowl of coke by his bed side for inspiration. And yes I have read Dianetics several times. It truly reminds me of a management training manual. Again its your choice. Sometimes when I drive by ocean house and look up on the bluff. I imagine people lined up at sunset waiting for John Travolta to come across the horizon in a space ship to get those frozen believers. What a sight that would be! Like I said all do respect! It was just a thought. Peace*

Anonymous said...

Hubbard and Scientology have cured more mental illness and substance abuse issues than christianity will ever do. Hell, Christianity creates those issues. Look at Stephen if you need proof, he is so hooked up on anyi-psychotics you could feed him to a Whale Shark and the poor thing would die. As far as Hubbard and cocaine, many people have done cocaine. Hubbards use has been blown out of proportion by church critics, its a proven fact.

charlie two crows said...

Anonymous..So your condemning stephen for his meds!but your condoning Hubbards use of cocaine. That is what you said. You seem to know stephen very well! But how is it we know nothing about you!
One would think, You Touting Scientology so vigorously. You would reveal you I'd from the Abyss so you could talk in depth with some of these commentors.
Tom Cruise says Mental Illness does not exist. So how did Hubbard cure all of the people you failed to mention.
Lastly you say that Scientology is the only way.
I really don't like having hot air pounded up my aress! With all do respect. Come out of the closet! We will be glad to show you the way to the light! Peace*

Anonymous said...

Stephen is dependent upon psychiatric medicine and anti-psychotic medications. Hubbard never was. Hubbard may have experimented with cocaine in his research, but was never anything close to being even a casual drug user.

Ever heard of narcanon? Do your research before you spout your garbage. Scientology is changing the world and is the fastest growing religion in the world.

Watch this video if you want a taste of the coming revolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPpIJYlXDcM

Anonymous said...

anon 9:19
I thought Muslim faith was the fastest growing religion.

Oregon

P.S. Don't believe all that you hear or read my friend.

Ernie said...

"Don't belive all you read or hear"

If it can't be hit with a hammer I'm going to be real suspicious!

Stephen said...

These anonymous libelers, here's another one going off on me:

"Stephen is dependent upon psychiatric medicine and anti-psychotic medications. Hubbard never was. Hubbard may have experimented with cocaine in his research, but was never anything close to being even a casual drug user.

Got news for you. Stephen has never used anti-psychotic, anti-depressants medications in his life. Oh yes, marijuana is not only my sacrament but very likely recreation too, you know like beer is for most people but here in Humboldt marijuana fills the same social and personal function. I am so bad for using the same social drug as the rest of you..

Hubbard made money off a his one-trick pony, the E-meter, his glorified galvanic response meter. What he never mentions in his Scientology spiel is the fact that learning how to get that E-meter calmed down is zero indication of real mental health. Any religious group that shows significant signs of severe paranoia as Scientologists are famous for, e.g. going after apostate members who go public with their complaints, has lost credibility in the mental health department for all who read between the lines of the pages between the covers of of these various ego-trips making money, in Scientology's case, really big money, for religious scamming. Prophet Mark is probably much more a real prophet than Hubbard for all his books and promotional organizations.

charlie two crows said...

Suzy Blah Blah..I read a comment of yours on another blog about guys like these scripted Dudes. Stop Light Roses Won't Mend This!
Peace* from the Desert.

Anonymous said...

Prophet Mark saved us from having a bad tsunami by dipping his long staff into the Pacific.

Albert Einstein said...

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

“Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.”

“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”

Anonymous said...

Good going Albert..

Oregon

Ernie Branscomb said...

Hummm… “Albert Einstein” must know that he is one of my most favorite of logical thinkers.

Imagination may be more important than knowledge, but we use our imagination to gain knowledge. Imagination is the investment, and knowledge is our cash in the bank.

We must judge truth and knowledge, the alternative is to believe lies and ignorance.

Sometimes getting from “A” to “B” is preferred over imagination. Imagination is like a tightly inflated balloon held high in the air and then released. In can go in some pretty amazing places. Some places that you might not want to go.

Methinks that Uncle Albert was taken badly out of context.

Anonymous said...

Stephen, you are a drug addict. You think you are connected to your own spirituality, but you are on drugs. Your judgement is effected by your drug use.

How dare you call Scientology a scam, your drug addled mind is venturing into the psychotic.

Anyone who is interested in truly bridging the gap between the reality of the modern world with your spiritual self, I strongly encourage you to watch the videos below. Drugs are not ok. Not even marijuana. YOU DONT NEED IT. IT IS NOT MEDICINE.

Please give L. Ron Hubbard a chance. Please watch these videos and clear you mind. It may be the best thing you've ever done.

Thank you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VaMOa5Hh7E&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_dJ6q6MhRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYL-InoDWu8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swRZKtiktfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt9SyNpirdo

spyrock said...

since we are on subject and here's a chance to disconnect manson from the hippies and connect him to the source of his ideas, i will repeat what he told others after attacking me in the fall of 68, "i'm just playing with him."
the following is from an interview with a former inmate of manson about scientology in 1962..According to Raul: Raul arrived in prison on McNeil Island, Washington in 1962 and became a cell mate of Lafayette Raimer allegedly a trained Scientology auditor (about Level I in Raul's estimation) and was introduced to Scientology at that time. Raimer was auditing in prison at that time and in one 10 man cell had managed to gather a group of about 7, all in Scientology. Charles Manson entered later and studied, did TRO etc. along with his cell-mates and received approximately 150 hours of auditing from Raimer. Processes used were CCH's, Help processes (Who have you helped-Who have you not helped) and other Dichotomy processes (Rauls terms, such as What can you confront, what would you rather not confront), Havingness (Such as "What can you have?" "Look around and find something you can have. Look around and find something you're not in." Rainer kept recor records of his auditing. Manson got super-energetic & flipped out when he'd been audited and would, for a time, talk about nothing but Scientology to the extent that people avoided his company. After a while, however, Manson was screaming to get away from his auditor (in Raul's opinion, he'd been severely over-run or something). He eventually managed to get put in solitary confi- nement to get away from his auditor. Eventually prison officials got suspicious of the groups strange activities and broke up the group. Subsequently, Raul was released from the prison in 1965. Raimer's wife was in training here at the L.A. Org in 1965-66; she had disconnected from Raimer. Raul just found out yesterday that another friend, Marvin White, later sent Manson books (after the Scientology group was broken up) on hypnotism and black magic,
when manson left the city for los angeles, he hooked up with a scientology brotherhood in laguna beach and a member named ron stark a cia agent who possessed a kilo of lsd called orange sunshine, a bad trip acid which was the stuff the manson family was on during the tate murders.
i had always thought manson was the way he was because he was born in 1934 and spent most of his life in prison. but now we know where his mind control came from. too much mind, no heart. sorry charlie. i'm still not buying it.

Robin Shelley said...

"You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays, everybody's crazy."
~ Charles Manson

Anonymous said...

Since Stephen is into merging religions, maybe he can connect Paxcalibur, Buffalo Calf Woman and the E-Meter into one religion.

Anonymous said...

What is going on at that secretive underground bunker, 350 yards long, two stories high with six feet of dirt covering it out near Petrolia?

Anonymous said...

YIKES!!! I just heard that the administration is planning on making food stamps our new national currency.
Now that's what I call religion...

Oregon

charlie two crows said...

Oregon..when the Euro was invented all the countries that joined the EU had to sell all of their Gold Reserves. Bet Greece wishes it still had that gold now.
Oregon.. Ever heard of a tarantula hawk. It a black hornet the size of a humming bird. We have them every where..Peace*

spyrock said...

you got it robin. nowadays you got a manson in every neighborhood.

spyrock said...

sorry oregon, but i heard that obama is a big steve gaskin fan and he thinks everyone will do just fine on a 20 lb. sack of organic of course, brown rice. that's all them chinamen get. and we gotta compete, don't ya know. plus the post office is going out of business. they don't even have mail stamps much less food stamps. you will have to pay that bill in person.

Anonymous said...

Charlie, seen the tarantula hawks on TV. Awesome bug:-)

Oregon

spyrock said...

sorry oregon, but i heard that obama is a big steve gaskin fan and he thinks everyone will do just fine on a 20 lb. sack of organic of course, brown rice. that's all them chinamen get. and we gotta compete, don't ya know. plus the post office is going out of business. they don't even have mail stamps much less food stamps. you will have to pay that bill in person.

spyrock said...

looks like we got a trifecta going.
have a good one. gotta go watch some high school football.

Anonymous said...

My father's house has many Mansons.

spyrock said...

"Investigators found Jeffs living a Mormon lifestyle, where he was the proverbial Charles Manson of a compound chock-full of God-fearing folk in Utah. He was the president and head advisor for the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which was later uncovered as a cult-like atmosphere for incest, rape, and religious debauchery."
'in the new book about manson called pigs, manson talks about a little known guru named krisna venta whose followers had a community still in existence when manson was looking for a place for his growing family to live when they moved to los angeles in the fall of 1968. manson had tried to take over the wavy gravy hog farm commune but wavy had his people chant om and it drove manson crazy, he got sick and had to leave. then in simi valley he came across the fountain of the world, a commune established by krisna venta in the 50's which was still in existence even though krisna had been murdered in 1958 by some former followers along with 9 other people. he tried to take over the fountain but the women who were in charge were afraid of him and asked him to leave many times in spite of the fact that their door was usually open to everyone. so manson got the spahn ranch which was recommended by the man who lived in the tate polanski house before they moved in.
supposedly, manson is trying to tie himself to krisna venta and say that's who he got his race war idea from and that krisna was having a water problem aka chinatown and blew himself up on purpose. it gets more interesting as venta's followers say that he was the angel moroni who gave smith the book of morman.
certainly with all the women, the manson family resembled the typical multi marriage family in an extreme sense or as charles seems to be spinning it as just another morman cult.

George Hays said...

Around 1960 our family encountered a group of very different looking people at a yard sale in Homer Alaska. They were young adults, barefoot, and all had long hair, the men's pony tails were in braids. We took a few picture and found out they were a group of communal vegetarians.
In the late 1970's I met a very sweet elderly woman who was a channel for Sananda, the being who had incarnated as Jesus, and later as Krishna Venta. She was a German woman with a thick accent, who told me about her teacher, Krishna Venta who had preached love but gotten assassinated by one of his inner circle of disciples. The Fountain went in many directions, starting little communes of sometimes-matriarchal barefoot vegetarians, including the group I had seen in Alaska.
How her eyes shone when I told her I had seen some of her old friends at the flea market when they were young.
These people were hippies before hippies.
Some years later I came across an article with a picture of Krishna Venta when he first got off the plane in America, a few years after WWII, arms spread and wearing a robe.
Except for getting blown up, it seemed that he was a very peaceful teacher. (Now there is a line for italics in somebody's comment!)
My reading of Manson's comments about the Fountain suggest that they rejected him and he hissed back.
I could be wrong, but this is what I know of the Fountain.

George H said...

"Ultimately, it is a question of whether the information Manson presents regarding Krishna Venta is what he has actually heard over the years versus whether he knowingly presents erroneous information about the man in an attempt to reinvent and misappropriate him for his ecological crusade." This link talks about Manson's distorted info about the Fountain.

Wikipedia confirms the Homer group. Not defending the group, just don't think Manson is an accurate storyteller.

George said...

Their Alaska retreat was established before the end of his life. The previous link was from a man who has diligently studied for his book about Krishna Venta, titled
"Barefoot Messiah of the Atomic Age".
As one might expect writings about a fringe religious group who wore robes and preached love and didn't eat animals, or wear shoes during the fifties might be sensationalized and misunderstood, so this author's task of sorting through what has been written about the Fountain and particularly Manson's statements, has been large.
In his autobiography Tom Cruise mentions that the founder of Scientology had some competition on the LA scene in the fifies from Krishna Venta.
Thanks for bringing all this up Spyrock.

spyrock said...

didn't really expect to find anyone who knew about krisna venta much less homer alaska. did the lady who was a channel live in oregon? i had heard that one of the manson women was allowed to stay at the fountain because she was pregnant and until she had her baby. but that all the others were told to leave.

G. Hays said...

Sister Walli lived in Mt. Shasta when I knew her, and if she moved after that, it would have had to be to a rest home.
Going through that blogsite author's posts, it sounds like the women at the Fountain, post Krishna Venta, read Charlie well and gave him the boot. Later on the groups kindness to some Native Americans brought in a rougher crew so more scandal was linked to the place.
I have been reading newspaper articles from Homer about their infamous Barefooters who stayed on.

spyrock said...

thanks, i found a book about asaiah and another one written by sister walli that i bought today online. thanks for the connection. there is a book written by one of the children who survived the explosion but its out of print. looks interesting though. the link about homer alaska was very informative. i had a friend who knew krisna venta and lived in homer, alaska after the explosion. his name back then was brother kc. he joined the fountain in june of 57 and left a few months before the explosion in 1958
came back when he heard the news and was sent to alaska when a fire burned down the main house in 1959 to help them rebuild. maybe you met him at your garage sale.
small world.

George Hays said...

Very small, very large, and magical.