How would it help you, personally, if Marijuana was legalized?From Drug Reporter:
California state Assemblyman Tom Ammiano (D-San Francisco) has announced the introduction of legislation to tax and regulate marijuana in a manner similar to alcoholic beverages. The bill, the first of its kind ever introduced in California, would create a regulatory structure similar to that used for beer, wine, and liquor, permitting taxed sales to adults while barring sales to or possession by those under 21.
Estimates based on federal government statistics have shown marijuana to be California’s top cash crop, valued at approximately $14 billion in 2006 — nearly twice the combined value of the state’s number two and three crops, vegetables ($5.7 billion) and grapes ($2.6 billion) — in spite of massive “eradication” efforts that wipe out an average of nearly 36,000 cultivation sites per year without making a dent in this underground industry.
Assemblyman Tom Ammiano compared marijuana to alcohol, saying that it needs to be "Legalized and Taxed" like alcohol. I think that Ammiano must be smoking the green weed himself if he thinks that the marijuana compares to the alcohol industry.
Back during prohibition, My Grampa Bill was rumored to have a little Moonshine for sale at his service station north of Laytonville. They say that he kept the shine in the battery acid jugs in the back of the station. He probably generated a little extra money pedaling the stuff. But, it was in no way his main income, or even a significant portion of it. He still had to pump gas, mount tires, change oil, and do a little mechanic work to make ends meet. He didn’t drive around town in his tricked-out jacked-up high-dollar Model-T. He still had to work for a living, and the town people that he sold his shine to had no doubt as to what he did for a living, he ran a service station.
Alcohol, back in those days, was NOT California’s main crop! Marijuana is now, by FAR, California’s main crop. If you want to put it in perspective, marijuana is a 16 billion (With a “B“) dollar crop. Grapes are what they make California Wine from. Grapes only bring in 2.6 billion. Marijauna is six time more valuable than Grapes in California.
Now, back when booze was legalized, all it did was increase the consumption. My Grampa’s little Moonshine operation didn’t miss a beat, because he could sell his alcohol tax free. His business only dropped of a little bit and it was a hell of a lot easier to hide his nefarious little sideline, because alcohol was legal, and it was hard to separate the legal stuff from the illegal stuff. It was kinda’ like 215 marijuana grow. It was hard it ferret out the outlaws, because they looked just like the good guys from a little distance.
Now, I have to say that I’m proud of my Grampa, he was a genius in many ways, he made ends meet, and had a little fun doing it. You have to admit, there is just something romantic about an outlaw. Okay, follow me back to today, and lets talk about the businesses in Humboldt County. Some businesses have a grass for sale out of their backrooms, and they still earn their livings the honest way. Kinda’ like Grampa.
Some businesses don’t pedal any grass at all, but their businesses are totally focused on supplying the Marijuana industry. You know the ones that I mean, they sell fertilizer, and they sell black plastic pipe, tanks, drip nozzles, lights, co2 generators. Then there are the businesses that sell Diesel, diesel tanks, containment tanks, and plumbing fittings for diesel pipes. Whole industries are built around Electrical generators. Whole businesses are built around soil and soil amendments. But they are all legitimate businesses and perfectly legal operations.
Some Businesses are one-hundred percent legitimate businesses, that don’t cater to, nor do they supply the Marijuana industry. Grocery stores, Banks, Hardware stores, and Restaurants. But, do they NOT really have anything to do with marijuana? If Marijuana was instantly not worth anything, and any profit that was left in the weed would go to the state. Do you really think that those businesses would be just as well off?
I really do think that Humboldt County will have quite a few business doors close if the weed is legalized. I also thing that any weed sold after legalization will be on the Black Market. I hardly think that the people that have been outlaws for all these years are going to say “thank-God we are legit now, and all we have to do is give the profit that we would make to the state”.
The other thing that I don’t like about legalizing Marijuana is, I really don’t think that it is as “Medicinal” as some people think it is. ( I know that there are obvious exceptions). I don’t like trying to carry on a business deal with somebody that is stoned, anymore than I like to carry on a business deal with somebody that’s drunk. Why is it that some people can’t figured out that they are Just plain tedious to tolerate, when they think that they are cool, when they are just plain stoned. Sober up for a while and talk to a stoner sometime, and you will see what I mean. There is a time and a place to diminish your capacity and kick back and enjoy yourself, be smart enough to know when that is.
I think that if our legislators think that they are going to balance their budgets with tax dollars from marijuana, they need to rethink their positions. They will turn a 16 billion dollar crop to the value of peanuts (Literally). They will be cooking our Goose that laid the Golden Egg. California will go almost instantly broke, and I can’t believe that they are stupid enough to not see that…
But damn, I forgot, they really are that stupid. Pray for us.
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95 comments:
Ernie... You better say where you got that awesome bud picture or people are going to be talking.
Grampa would be proud of me!
ernie is right! We cannot let this law pass, we do not need more tax's this would destroy the north coasts economy! Especially southern humboldts. Production would ultimatly move south into central valley untill mega farms took over and sold for so dirt cheap that any small production wouldn't be worth the cost. You would instantly see the home prices drop, and you could expect more and more stores to go under. MJ strains would be patented and genticaly modified. Grown with chemical fertilizers. this Would take all the profits from the industry and consolidate it into fewer hands and you would see a decentralized economy collapse and the guy providing for his family will no longer be able to do so and instead would make minimum wage doing the same job for some corporation.
Ernie, we have so much in common including moonshining ancestors but I differ greatly with you on the legalization of marijuana.
1. If marijuana is as harmless as alcohol (or as harmFUL depending on your point of view), the state, in order to be consistent, should treat both the same. Studies consistently show marijuana not to be physically addictive--alcohol is. So if anything, it is less harmful and should be treated less harshly.
If people are going to take laws seriously and respectfully, it will be because laws are sensible and it is imperative in a society that citizens take laws seriously. Making marijuana illegal and tobacco and alcohol legal isn't sensible and most people know that.
Basically what you seem to be advocating is that the state make something illegal so that we here in the north coast can profit. Following that logic perhaps the state should make pineapple illegal so that Hawaiians can profit!
Just because it isn't personally convenient for us, doesn't mean that legalizing pot isn't the morally right and socially correct decision.
Anonymous points out some dangers of legalization. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the state legalized marijuana growing but allowed only farms of less than 100 plants outdoors in order to keep small farmers going. This would keep prices somewhat higher and would keep the income high for small growers, thus allowing taxes to be collected on the higher prices.Farmers could get organically certified just as other more conventional agricultural farmers do. The North Coast would still take a hit, but a smaller one and law enforcement costs and environmental damage would plummet.
Instead of trying to kill the bill, let's work with it to maintain the wonderful culture that has grown up around "our peculiar lifestyle.
Ernie, though there are points in this entry that I do disagree with, for the most part, this is a spot-on post!
Legalize it. I want to see the f-cking criminals pay 50%+ of their earnings in taxes. It's been a free ride in more ways than one.
Let them have to live up to the environmental and labor restrictions they've had a part in advocating - if you buy the 'they're so generous with donations' meme.
Workplace requirements, withholdings, paperwork, expensive mitigations, fees - the whole catastrophe, let it be visited upon them. Diesel is only part of the problems they have to answer for.
The price will plummet, and their costs will rise.
You might think we would save money by not needing CAMP, but the fact is you will need a whole new layer of enforcement to get people to comply with all the OTHER laws they are breaking - from not paying taxes on.
Kym, we agree far more than you think. Marijuana and alcohol are basically the same thing if you are talking about a recreational drug. People use Marijuana to relax the same as alcohol. I find nothing wrong with using either of them recreationally. But to inflict yourself on someone in a serious situation when you are either stoned or drunk is not fair to the person that you are dealing with, or yourself. I find it laughable that there are people out there that used to be drunk all the time that have switched to marijuana and they think that they have improved themselves. Granted some people function better stoned than drunk, and they can cycle their habit more effectively on Marijuana. I am not prone to any addiction myself and I have trouble understanding people that are, so I am, admittedly a poor judge.
My point was (With, maybe a few side trips down memory lane)
almost entirely that the state would NOT improve their financial position by legalizing it.
It is a catch-22 situation. Marijuana is now a valuable crop and would solve the states financial situation by taxing it. But as soon as they legalize it, it will be worth the close to the price of a pack of cigarettes. The value to the California economy is estimated at 16 billion dollars. The price to Humboldt county, and especially Southern Humboldt, is incalculable.
I was a strong advocate of not letting Marijuana take over or county, and I was very up front about what would happen if it did. I take no joy in being right. However it has taken over our county and just like any addiction the business community can’t do without it. I think that I’m being very realistic about this. No abrupt moves can be tolerated. How ever we get out of this mess will have to be as slow as we got into it. To many innocent people will get hurt to move fast, like legalization.
Rose, I respect and understand your bitterness toward these "Criminals" that have destroyed our county. But, we all live on a slippery slope and some people aren’t as smart as you and I, and they struggle to make a living and support a family. You can’t raise a family pumping gas or washing dishes. Although, those are respectable and honest jobs. If a person is not college material, that person is still entitled to a life and a family. I completely understand the attraction that growing a few plants can have.
I know many people that have gone in and out of growing Marijuana. Most are basically fair and honest people and in most cases got into growing through desperation. Yes, I understand that there are greedy rotten drug-thug bastards out there. They aren’t going to go away. But let’s try not to group people all together as “criminals“.
I know in my own case, even though I have purposefully avoided being involved in any way with the marijuana industry, my very livelihood is almost directly connected to it. I know that you are also connected to it in more ways than you would like to admit. You have friends that would be hurt if it all went away. I guarantee you would be hurt in some way.
Ernie said the state would NOT improve their financial position by legalizing it.
i agree.
Kym said legalizing it is the morally right and socially correct decision.
i totally agree!!
Ernie said You have friends that would be hurt if it all went away. I guarantee you would be hurt in some way.
We can withstand the pain.
Suzy, You always make me think… I hate that!
This is the closest that I've ever seen come to being serious. Do you have any thoughts on the economy and legalization?
Well I'm not suzy and for darn sure not as smart, but I will tell you if the government gets involved everything will go to pot.
Oregon
good one,OREGON!!!
I find it laughable that there are people out there that used to be drunk all the time that have switched to marijuana and they think that they have improved themselves.
THEY HAVE Ernie. Being addicted to booze is absolutely nothing compared to smoking pot. You and I have had the whole conversation before, days of it. Alcohol is poison, you can die from it. The whole thing is different. The death associated with pot is because it is illegal. The drug itself is not worth the big money and especially not the deaths. It's immoral that it's illegal. I have been both. Being the terrible drunk I was has nothing to do with the person you talk to every week, a pot smoker. It's night and day. Yeah there are people who sit around and smoke pot all day and they can be idiots. There are plenty of idiots to go around... sober, drunk or stoned.
Bunny, you know that I have nothing but respect and admiration for you, and you know that respect and admiration is deserved. But you will have to admit that you control your use much better that some. Thanks for being nice about it.
P.S. you were not that bad of a person when you were drinking either. But, the issue that I'm trying to address, apparently unsuccessfully, is the impact that legalization will cause.
I really don’t think that it is fair that the people that will suffer the most, in the economic downturn because of legalization, are the people that had nothing to do with marijuana, and don’t have obscene wealth from producing it.
cheers for this honest discussion!
I have heard that "blue" is the new "purple". Not only are you bold but you are cutting edge.
Frank talk is needed and I salute your dialogue.
Easy access to MJ broke my 3 year stupid cocaine habit permenantly when I arrived up here. Torpor is inimical to survival, so self-medicating is much easier....for most.
I've always been a "legalize and tax it" girl so while I see some of your points, I'm with Kym on this. I doubt the tax revenue will save California but the money that goes to enforcement can certainly be put to better use. The growers who continue for whatever reason will be able to do it out in the open so many of the issues like leaking furtive fuel tanks and illegally modified electrical circuits will be eliminated. True, some will stop growing because it won't be as lucrative but law-abiding farmers may take it up as a profitable crop. Organic farms may begin selling taxed product at the farmers market...heck, maybe the CR farm will include some bud in our shares.
I see "home grower" situations akin to home brewing and perhaps neighbors will find little baggies of bud on their porch alongside abundant zucchini.
I think the positive would overshadow the negative. Then CAMP can become the Campaign Against Meth Production.
Beachcomber, I love your vision of buds being furtively dropped off like an overabundance of zucchini. It captures the warm community feel of laughter and joy that I mostly associate with marijuana culture.
Beachcomer, I like your way with words. Anybody can drop off an over-abundance of zuccini on me at anytime. I have a million recipes, and I love the stuff! Give the bud to somebody else.
The over-abundance of weed in our area is apparent, I see people dropping baggies of the stuff on the street people downtown all the time. I never see money change hands so I’m assuming it’s charity. Also it’s not that “furtive”. If I can see it happen, anybody can.
Legalizing it all at once would clearcut the easymoney trees that grow in hills.
Out of those stumps could sprout many new environmentally friendly small industries from medecines (salves and tinctures), farmer's market gourmet 'produce', and perhaps the return of hemp production.
With a huge drop in price a lot of property ownership will change, and presumably land values and prices plummet further from the bubble high of recent yore.
One could walk through the towns down here and count the ones that would go under without MJ-easy- cash to sustain their marginal success. It would be huge, and an effective way to curb money in the hands of a growing middle class counter culture. But there are so many counties with pot production that to devastate the economies of so many marginal or suffering counties is not likely in these fragile economic times.
I believe all this wonderful talk about pot in the press is serving like an icebreaker to break up the ice on the subject, but that we are still years from anything too dramatic.
All of this is just my conjecture,
Everybody is ecstatic about the feds refusing to enforce laws pertaining to marijuana. Obama has declared it will be a “States Problem” to deal with, and the feds will no longer interfere. California Attorney General Jerry Brown has some new. More restrictive guidelines that he is suggesting.
The new guidelines:Stolen from Redheaded Blackbelt:
Medical marijuana patients should apply for state issued ID cards that the California police should hold legitimate. (a verification database will be found online)
patients and authorized caregivers should have no more than 8 oz. of processed marijuana (Doctors may recommend more and only the female marijuana bud is to be counted towards this weight.)
Patients and authorized caregivers should have no more than 12 immature or 6 mature plants (Doctors may recommend more.)
If Patients appear to have excess marijuana, all marijuana can be confiscated.
Patients should not use their medicine near schools.
Patients should not use their medicine at work (unless the employer gives consent.)
Non profit collective or cooperative medical dispensaries are legal but for profit businesses are not.
Sales of Medical Marijuana are subject to a tax but no profit can be made from the sale.
Dispensaries are prohibited from buying marijuana from illegal commercial grows (they must obtain the medicine from patients or caregivers with “fees limited to covering overhead and operating expenses.”
According to Stopthedrugwars.com "while providing protections to patients and non-profit dispensaries organized as co-ops or collectives, the guidelines could provide a green light for law enforcement to go after the store-front dispensaries that have sprung up like mushrooms in some areas of the state. In ballyhooing a Friday raid against a Northridge dispensary by California Bureau of Narcotics Agents, Brown signaled Monday that a crackdown could be looming.
The new guidelines may be preceding a new round of serious enforcement.
Anonymous, I'd like to see the bill pass (with some revisions) but like you, I think it is just an icebreaker.
Anonymous, your comment was remarkably well thought out and most likely spot-on. Time will tell won't it?
Our business is doing well in these troubled times. We aren’t down as much as the economy, or as much as other businesses. But, I suffer from "Survivor’s Guilt". I will have to admit that survivors guilt is much more fun than the alternatives!
Ernie --Suzy doesn't have any solutions but i will tell you how i feel about this. It needs to be decriminalized nationally. Marijuana is benign. People should NOT be arrested for growing using selling distributing etc. That's immoral and needs to change.
Yet I don't know. The economic loss that you are talking about is very real too. You have an excellent point. All the pain and suffering that it will cause, that's an important moral/social issue as well.
I'm not sure exactly where the balance lies. You may be right Ernie. I think that many of us are looking through rose tinted glasses at this one.
Oregon --LOL! I agree about the govt.
Following that logic perhaps the state should make pineapple illegal so that Hawaiians can profit!
Just how much do you think I can get for my illegal pineapple kym?
None from me, anon, I hate the stuff. I'm not a tropical kind of woman.
Damn! I like pineapples. Now I’m going to have to get me some lights and a genny and grow my own. But, to really make it profitable they will have to outlaw them in Hawaii.
Maybe we can claim that they are medicinal, and they can cure anxiety. I know that they are an appetite stimulant, because I always get the munchies after sucking one down.
I think that anon has really hit on it here! Pineapple could very well become the new drug of choice.
Fact is, I like pineapple much more than Marijuana, and I would pay more for it than I would for Marijuana.
I think the R.J. Reynolds & Phillip-Morris, et.al, companies are watching the Emerald Triangle closer than the DEA & FBI combined. If & when the government decides to slap a tax stamp on pot, the hills will be crawling with Big Tobacco folks armed with information, contracts, ink pens & more money than maybe even a dope grower ever dreamed of. Think of all the minimum wage jobs it will create!
Robin, if the big tabacco folks go crawling around the hills of the Emerald Triangle they better be armed with more than pens and contracts.
Oregon
You're clever, Oregon, but I think Papa Pot & Mama Mary Jane would think twice about shooting someone whose whereabouts is known by every law enforcement & government official in the country.
Oh sure Robin, use logic to ruin great humor.
Actually people just disappear into thin air, never to be found again. Then a poster goes up about "Has anybody seen my poor xxxx. Big reward. We just want the body, that's all".
And there's another reason to legalize it. Good Morning Ernie.
Your original question was how would it affect people personally.
I would be able to grow a couple of plants for personal use on my deck without concern for helicopters, neighborhood politics, landlords, or revenuers. After burning holes in my stomach with what doctors give you for pain, I found marijuana to be the best end of the day pain easer some forty years ago.
No more would I be an outlaw for taking care of the pain of a broken back.
I would smoke no more or less than I do now...one small joint a day.
I would roll up my first unhassled joint and curse all the ignorant "suits" who have kept this fine herb a class 1 drug for so long, and then praise the "suits" who legalized it.
My income would not change a bit, but I would feel a lot like Obama-night knowing that right had won out. Making a person an outlaw with unjust laws for simply recreating lightly and treating chronic pain is criminal.
Take care of my chronic pain, or obey the "strictures" of the law?
Hah!
Keeping marijuana illegal in order to keep prices up is analogous to the wealthy rabbits in Watership Down who live close to the Farmer and get access to culture etc. because they do but every once in a while one of them gets trapped in the Farmer's snare.
In the case of illegal marijuana, it is the Farmer who gets trapped and sent to jail or worse killed because we as a society, for whatever our reasons, don't change the laws.
If marijuana stays illegal, then Humboldt may (and I'm not sure of that) continue to gain a great deal of money but it will lose many of its fine people like Cathy Davis and others will be ruined by the secrecy that automatically follows illegality.
there is a movie out called pineapple express. it's actually the name of a particuliar high grade of weed. they claim its the best stuff on the market. which would by the way indicate what would happen to weed if it was legalized. just like wine, there are weed conosewers. so your typical humbolt weed would be right at the top of the weed list. just like the wine list they have at your local wine outlet store. just like wine, a mom and pop operation on a few acres could compete in selected markets just as mom and pop wine operations compete. so the job still exists but probably not the big bucks or the threat of death or prison time. but people could suppliment their income in any event.
i personally don't buy weed. but i know people who have quit smoking tobacco by smoking weed instead until the nicotine craving wore off and then they quit all together. i had 3 relatives die of lung cancer one after the other over a 5 year period and its ironic that nobody is saying anything about how harmful tobacco is and can put down weed because it offends certain peoples morals or religious beliefs. which is exactly the reason why weed is banned. these weeds or plants were used by the indigineous people of this hemisphere for thousands of years before the spanish church burned all the records of the previous civilizations that existed here and converted by force the natives away from the medicine teachings that had been passed down for generations about how to survive where they lived. much of this knowledge was lost forever, but some weeds are persistant and so common that you are going to have to pave all of paradise and put up your so called fundamentalist christian parking lot so you can listen to the preacher every sunday from your drive in church and still one of those pesky weeds might pop up through the pavement.
even if they legalize weed, i don't think that i would want to smoke it. maybe in some brownies or just a little bit in the stuffing in that thanksgiving dinner.
the best part about legalizing it for me, is that they would take down those locked gates around spyrock and i wouldn't get shot trying to see where the old log cabin and pond near shell rock creek that my mom grew up in was.
i don't know if they still make cowboy ropes out of weed, but back in the 50's when i was about 7, i spent the night out at uncle delberts house and he had all these brand new green weed ropes. hemp i think was the word they used in the olden days. well dummy that i was, i was playing with those ropes and left them lying next to the pot bellied stove while i took a nap. i awoke to a room full of weed smoke and uncle delbert standing over me who would usually give me an ass whipping over doing something that dumb but probably the effect of all that weed smoke mellowed him out and i remember some kind of strange smile he had on his face. that was about the only time he ever let me slide.
this is an example of laws in our country that serve no economical or sane purpose. their only purpose is to keep a certain religious entity in power. 'my way is right and no other way is right.' whether they are fundamentalist arabs or fundamentalist christains. they are both fundamentally terrorists to our planet and everyone in it.
how much more of our children's future are you willing to sacrifice so these people can continue their war of destroying each other. no matter what you do, that weed is going to pop up somewhere, everywhere, forever.
i don't mean to change the subject, but i'm sorting out family stuff today and came across a letter written by my mom to someone writing a book about spyrock. i won't repeat it all.
"the first school in the spyrock community was located up from shellrock creek on the john simmerly property. it was called branscomb school." go figure.
"guy simmerly, grace simmerly, hazel, fred, and frank simmerly, the dunimun children were some of those that attended which started about 1897 and closed about 1915. our aunt ruth devilbliss was one of the teachers." its sort of weird that my grandma went to branscomb school which was obviously named after some of ernies ancestors.
Spyrock, I'm glad that you dove in, I'm going to do a post on the old schools, that the Old-Timers where educated in. So hold your breath and we will get there. Meanwhile back at the ranch....
All of this has just been an exercise in futility, because no matter what we think, or what we have to say, ultimately our “wise” lawmakers will be making the decision. Mostly what I’m doing here, is establishing that if they legalize it, and everything turns to chaos, I will sadly be able to say I told you so.
I’ve seen people write here that they don’t care what happens as long as the growers have to pay taxes like everyone else. Some have said that it has cured their addictions, and have given compelling testimony. I had a person on the street tell me that people needed to find God to get away from ALL of their addictions. I was polite, but I remember a friend of mine that was not religious, like me. He said that the ultimate addiction that fits all of the criterion of an addict is religion. It affects your relationships, it demands your attention over what you do, it changes your life, and your personality. I can still hear him say; “I used to be on smack, now I’m on God.” He thought that it was funny that people thought they were cured, when in his mind they just moved to the ultimate addiction.
Kym advocated: “Wouldn't it be wonderful if the state legalized marijuana growing but allowed only farms of less than 100 plants outdoors in order to keep small farmers going.” My God 100 plants is a small operation? 100 plants would provide enough weed in one year to keep the average person wacked out of their minds for a lifetime. Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing Kym, because she is one of the few people that has approached the legalization issue with a compassionate approach, and she has thoughtfully considered what it would do to people. She advocated legalization, with great regulation. I don’t anticipate the cops regulating anything that is worthless. Have you ever seen a two-bit operation be raided? I mean other than those caught in the way? The cops rightfully go after the big players. There will be no big players after legalization. The cops will be the first to loose their jobs. Stop cheering! Cops have families too!
One person lamented the fact that her family was torn apart by growing the illegal crop and trading it for meth. Sadly, her father was addicted before he got away from it.
A person who’s idea’s were constructive, and I really appreciate this line of can-do thinking, was the person that advocated the position, that if life sends us lemons, make lemon-aide. The person said: “Out of those stumps could sprout many new environmentally friendly small industries from medicines (salves and tinctures), farmer's market gourmet 'produce', and perhaps the return of hemp production.” They went on to say: “I believe all this wonderful talk about pot in the press is serving like an icebreaker to break up the ice on the subject, but that we are still years from anything too dramatic.
All of this is just my conjecture,” I wish more people would “conjecture” like this, I think that the world would have less problems.
I have a lot more to say but I’m going to let this soak a while.
The US Government has already patented CBD, the alkaloid responsible for marijuana's anti inflammatory properties. The idea of taxation is based on the eventuality of large commercial farms which can easily be monitored. These operations would be in the Central Valley rather than here. Imagine living downwind from a couple hundred acres of mature sinsemilla. (interesting that spell check knows that word). We'll see it in about twenty years in my opinion.
Sadley Ben, Politics has more to do with our perception of reality than Tangibles>
I’ve done a little research, and there is another theory. After legalization, the people that buy Marijuana will be buying it for the price of peanuts, and that will leave them with more money to spend, thus feeding the economy. Hey, I was trying to look at the bright side. Sadly, their savings will be Sohum’s loss. The stats don’t do a breakdown as to where that 16 billion dollar crop is grown, but I understand that Sohum and northern Mendocino are major players.
Now a little history; At one time we had a judge in the Garberville Court House, back when we had a court, that would turn marijuana users, and growers loose with great abandon. He would allow any defense that they put forth, and turn them loose. Some of us felt at the time that he was encouraging people to move up here and grow Marijuana. One of his famous cases was where he was turning growers loose because he would allow a “Species Defense”. All anyone had to say is that the species of marijuana that they were growing was not “specifically illegal” and he would allow them to go free. He was de-facto making marijuana legal in Southern Humboldt. He would throw any case out of court where he thought that the defendant was “profiled”, like driving a beat-up Volkswagon with dope smoke blowing out of the windows.
Now this judge, I will have to say was an honorable man. He truly believed in what he was doing and it was his opinion that Marijuana should be legal. The mans name was Judge Charles M. Thomas. He became a local hero with the growers, and was highly revered amongst the counter-culture. However, people that were intending to retire up here were being scared off by the “Strange New People. The town people objected to the judge’s actions and recalled him. There was a special election held, and Judge Thomas won. Most of the “townies” at that point said to hell with it. The “hill-people” could do what ever the hell they wanted to do, and they just went about their business. The townies said that “When there it hell to pay over this dope business, Just remember we told you so”
Is there hell to pay yet? Do you have an economy controlled by Marijuana? Are people dieing at a higher rate than normal? Do you have diesel in your creeks? Do your kids look forward to getting an honest job, or do they have the attitude that Marijuana should be legal? That Marijuana is just a harmless herb?
Along with many others, I took the attitude that it was no longer my problem, and that I was out-shouted and out-voted and that it didn’t really make any difference what I said, and that I would just go along with the program. In fact I decided that the these new people brought us some great new culture, and some interesting new ideas. They were basically honest and caring people. They just happened to be fond of the weed. I have great friends that will come screaming to the defense of the weed at the mere mention that it is a problem. But here we are…
And, you know that I hate to say I told you so. Now, how are we going to get out of this mess without my new-found friends becoming victims? I’m sorry I don’t see growers as “Bastards that need taxing”. I see basically honest people that were trying to provide for their families the best way they knew how. Of course there are bastards among them, just like Wall Street, politics, and any other part of life.
I guess what I’m saying is we need to get out of this mess the same way we got in. SLOWLEY.
Isn't it funny how spelling and typos jump out at you the next morning. Thanks for not pointing them out.
I thought about correcting you Ernie but you seem to do better than me so I leave it alone.
Except the narrower saw thing.
My big problem is leaving words out.
"Q: What kind of reaction have you gotten to your proposal to legalize marijuana for recreational use in California?
A: It's been a great reaction. There has been support from very interesting areas, conservatives saying, "Yeah, it's about time. This is hypocritical, let's go for it." I think the way this is falling all over the political spectrum is surprising for some people...." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/01/BA00165VB9.DTL
link for above
Well, Ernie & 11:37, even Suzy "sobered up" for this one.
I noticed that too--Suze writes like she is wearing a three piece suit, olmanriver uses capitals and gets compliments for
"remarkable" smartifying... This must be some serious good s--t we are talking here!
Ha, ha, 2:03!
People tend to get very serious when something threatens their livlihood. Ask any logger. Or millworker. Or just about anybody else in this day & age, I guess.
i went to bed a lazy craftsman and woke up with a marijuana livelihood. nope.
part of why i am posthappy on the subject is cause i got nothing to lose. i am Capitalizing occasionally on the subject, but not capitalizing.
my first year in these parts i was a bigtime grower. like many growers around here i had to have a vehicle to show off my grower ego. mine was a rusty '66 clutchless datsun station wagon. i lived with a septugenarian landlord who had plants here and there on the property, but the renters couldn't.
somehow, a potseed sprouted under one of my rosebushes. i happen to believe in talking to plants (yes, i live alone), so i told that terrifyingly illegal sprout that if it grew up i would have to pull it and end its life. that was in may. all through the summer that plant never grew more than three inches tall, dropping leaves as soon as new leaves showed. 3" tall!
it was getting fed everything the rose was. come fall it budded into a 1/2' bud and turned brown purple as october came around. i was so proud of my crop, i wanted to pose with my eyeball right behind the plant to show the scale of things, and send it into high times as centerfold material. the wave of the future...bonsai bud!
as everyone knows, that trend didnt catch on.
now that was decades ago...so please dont turn me in.
liveliness, yes, but livelihood..nope.
1/2 " bud, not 1/2'!
Good for you, OMR. I've never engaged in the marijuana business in any way, shape or form. Being a former resident of Laytonville for 50 years, I undoubtedly benefited from it in ways I'm aware of & not aware of &, of course, I know plenty of farmers. I wasn't referring to you or anyone else in particular so please don't take offense. As Ernie has pointed out, legalizing pot just might have a devastating effect on the economy in the so-called Emerald Triangle & that, I believe, is a a serious subject & I know from experience that people get downright scared when their livlihood is in jeopardy. Legalizing pot as the recreational drug it is & making it as cheap & easy to obtain as a pack of cigarettes at the local liquor store would put a lot of people in the ET out of business. It might be fun to grow & roll your own tobacco or brew your own beer or stomp your own grapes now & then but it's not really very cost effective for the general population & very few people feed the family doing so.
robin, no offense taken. you are kind to worry that i might.
like kym's blog- it is great that we hold to a higher level of consideration for each other...gosh it is hard not to have double entendres fly on this topic.
Kym, Suzy, Bunny...
Bravo to all of you.
I'm on the school computer and maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about what's happening on our public lands. If it's legalized and the bottom drops out of the black market, yes, there's going to be some pain for a while, but I think it'll be worth NOT having our national parks and forests destroyed for the high-profit cash crop.
I live off of Red Mountain, and I've only been to the top once. ONCE. I can't go hiking up there without an armed posse. I can't take my daughter hiking up there. Think I'm being paranoid? A BLM ranger stopped my partner on the road a few weeks ago, right around the time some major activity was going on nearby, and my partner flat-out asked him if the Mexicans were here to stay. The ranger sighed, shook his head, and said "Yeah. We're totally understaffed and outgunned. Don't go up there by yourself."
My taxes pay for my public lands. It pisses me off - I repeat, IT PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF - that I can't access them.
Legalize it, tax it, and end this farce. People who know good bud and can afford it will keep on buying it from mom-and-pop growers, and people who don't will buy whatever cheap, genetically-modified crap they can get from Philip Morris. Just like people who know fine wine and can afford it will pay $50 or more a bottle, and people who don't and can't afford it will keep on drinking Gallo swill.
End of rant, off to PE.
I must be slipping here. I thought that I posted something earlier, but I guess that I didn't.
I'll start again. OMR, good story!
I also said that most of what Suzy writes is obviously a put on. If you just read what she writes, you can pick out some real wisdom. Reading her stuff is a delightful diversion to our otherwise tedious lives. I thought that she might have some input for us, but she seems to be as confused about the future as we are. I think that she wanted to write it in such a way that we understood that she was being serious. She has always been a very nice person, so maybe she was just trying to not hurt my feelings.
It looks like Heraldo, Kym and I hit the big time in the Sierra County Prospect
I hope my link works better than theirs!
For those of you who don't know, I was raised around people that swore a lot. I was always told that when you resort swearing that you do that because you are not smart enough to make make your point without swearing.
So, I have to tell you that Cristina speaks three languages or more fluently, and unpteen dielects. She still swears, the reason she swears is not that she isn't articulate, she is. It's because some people JUST DON'T FUCKING PAY ATTENTION! And when they do, they don't understand. SO FUCKING PAY ATTENTION!
Thanks Cristina, that felt good!
--Suze writes like she is wearing a three piece suit,
yo anonomuos 2'03! thanx you soooooooo much for the complament and 4 the ... uh 4 hte groovy idea... that would be soooo the very cewl new suzy --stylin' in my 3p suit... kinda like Wm S Burroughs did it --with a little opium pipe in the vestt pocket. And i will then also change my name to --Suzy Devilbliss
LOL
Ernie -confuzed? Suzy counfuxed? No never... i like tangables almost as much as pineapples. And I like to do them sloWEly...
Spyrock --cracks in the pavement and everything u said --yes exactly.
OMR --reading yr shit gave me a toltally humungus LOL!! u r sooo funny!
note --humungous = 3"
Cristina -- go take a walk, oh thats right yuo cant ;) --luv u
Bunny --there are plenty of idiots to go around but what about cute bunnies with joints? careful not to roll em too fat or the Watership Down squad might show up.
Kym --what do yuo think? shoould Suzy wear a white cowboy hat with her 3piece suit? or a black one?
ok, see yall later i gotta grab my briefcase and catch a
plane
s
dearest ms. s.b.b.devilbliss, glad to see you are back and..enjoying the inflight movie.
the new suzey blurroughs? from what i recall of the naked lunch movie, watch out for your typewriter/
computer, as you have driven one and seem to know... they aren't what they seem.
have a nice flight.
Whew! Scares me when Suzy talks straight & Ernie talks dirty.
Love you guys!
it IS kinda scary -heh heh- i hope we arent starting to shapeshift like in that sceane in Naked Lunsch where Jesus eats amanita muxhrooms and goes to Dignity's chrurch where they all eat the communion wafer soaked in the LOrd's piss and then he whips out a hooka made from the holy grail and while Dr Dignity and his patient are smoking pot frome the holy grail they turn into each other and cant tell if theyre themself or the other for the rest on the scene. i mean yeah sure its hilareous the way Burroughs writes it but this isnt a story in a book, this is --real!
it Is kinda scary... Maybe that is because we are at the 'frayed end of the thread.
just so ya know. ruth edna devilbliss was ross sherburn's great aunt or his uncle luther's mother in law. she was his aunt helens mom who died soon after helen was born in 1918. uncle guy had married an english girl in san francisco and ben was born in 1909 but spyrock was a bit too rough for her. so uncle guy hooked up with the new school teacher from westport, miss devilbliss. she was the mother of howard simmerly in 1913 and helen in 1917. miss nora devilbliss was the second teacher at the yoew school and was probably related as she came from the fort bragg area. she married floyd tucker, a rancher who lived in the area. they spelled devilbliss devilibis and devilbiss and devilbis. so take your pick.
just what i was saying about indigineous people and plants. the maya have a saying, "i am another you."
"In Mayan tradition there is a greeting that many people working with Mayan wisdom know of. It is In Lak'ech. We understand In Lak'ech to mean I am another yourself (A modern day interpretation) and also means I am you, and You are me (A traditional Mayan interpretation) We have come to understand that this Mayan greeting is an honoring for each other and a statement of unity. In Lak'ech mirrors the same sentiment of other beautiful greetings such as Namaste for East India and Wiracocha for the Inca. The Maya greeting, In Lak'ech goes beyond these unity statements and what I learned as a child. What few understand is that In Lak'ech is more that an honorable Maya greeting. It is a moral code. It is a way to live, not only with human beings, but with ALL forms of life in our cosmos!
When one lives the Mayan code of In Lak'ech, we understand that everything we do in this dimension effects all life and spirit in the cosmos, either in a positive or negative way, depending on our actions and motivations. As Mayan Elder, Hunbatz Men teaches, we can say In Lak'ech to each other, In Lak'ech to the trees, In Lak'ech to the sky, In Lak'ech to the birds, In Lak'ech to the stars and so on. This action of In Lak'ech is honoring and acknowledging our intimate connection and unity with all life. When we live the code of In Lak'ech we send essential energy filled with love and respect to other life forms. Solely focusing on the avoidance of causing harm is a neutral action. One is not harmed, but none benefits from the connection either. When we practice In Lak'ech, we are producing and sending positive and vital energy to all other forms of life. When we practice In Lak'ech we quit being neutral and take action in a positive way by adding to the positive experience of being connected with all life. When we practice In Lak'ech with a tree, the tree benefits from the interaction. Remember when you give your energy to any other life form you are also giving to yourself! You do not give your energy away to something separate from yourself. You are giving to another part of yourself!" sort of like suzy's naked lunch, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly. A Naked Lunch with yuor "other' is what we need --even more than legalized pot.... Burroughs took psychedelics with the s. amereican shamans and was educated in their ways of doing dope. He was a wise man and a master writer. He and Poe are the best american writers. And Wm S is the best dope writer ever. He wwas promoting legalizaion back in the 50s but was no pollyanna. Under the influance of muchrooms when living in central america he predicted that it wouldn't be llegalizied until 2012... the end of the Mayan calander. He knew all about that stuff and everything ...
Every soHum kid should read him. I was born and raised in soHum, and my auntie saw what i was going thruough being surrounded by the dope scene and all and so she gave me Nova Express to read when i was eleven --about the same time most kids around here start smoking .. Reading Burroughs gave me a foundation. He was the roots of our culture here. But the troubel is weve lost touch with our roots. Weve forgotten that the other is us.
I think every kid in soHum should read Burroughs. Naked Lunch is a good one to start with, or the soft Machine or Nova Express. They should be required reading at Begginnings Samlmon CReek and Whale Gulch schlools. It would orient the kids so theyre not out of touch with there roots in the dope culture that they are raised in.
But its a sad thing when you have kids reading cute stories about bunny rabbits one day and driving humounguos 60000$ trucks the next. Weve lost out connection with the sacredness of the herb and our connection with the other. Time for the age of peyote and Laketcha to return to the hills.
I can take a walk, Suzy, just not up my own damn mountain!
spyrock...that is one of my favorite comments ever, thank you for sharing this truth/wisdom!
suzy blah blah...
after reading and rereading your 12:09 and waiting to see if anyone would "touch" it...
sham-an you!
OMR, im sooo sorry. please 5give me. Suzy was bad, huh? But if you are me and i am your Other and Spyrock is one with the Tree and Devil Bliss is related to Sure Burn and the Walrus is Paul and we are in Truth all together just one big saturated wafer --then sham-on you too ;)
i just hope Ernie isnt pissed off. but like the Mayan chief Firechaser said in the Mayan Codices, the eagle doesnt walk on the mountain --she flys above it. Which means in English --the illegal grower and the police helicopter are One. you dont have one side of the coin without the other. Thats shamanism 101.
group huggles,
s
Huggles back at you Suzy! And thanks Spyrock for some interesting stuf. You are making my scientific brain hurt again.
I'm back home, and I've read all of this stuff. Now, I have to make it all work for me.
I have never been a spiritual person, and I also have a great fear of not having complete control of myself. To lose myself in an alcohol or drug induced stupor is unthinkable to me. The mere thought of moving myself into another state of consciousness terrifies me. I don’t even like being further out in a boat than I think that I can swim to shore. I do it anyway, and that is only through my own personal courage that I do so.
I don’t believe in anything without a sound scientific basis, so the thought of Gods and Shamans and spirituality is alien to me. When I see others talk about other existences and “trips” It makes me wonder, but I just don’t feel comfortable going there. So I read your knowledge and experience with great interest, because I know that I will never try it, and I wonder about whether there is a real benefit in being spiritual, or if it is just a different plane of consciousness.
6-10given suz...to forgive is to be forgiven and i/we all need that. ernie's usual generous of character response shames my punself.
when people start to give away the secrets of the gnomes, and their love of red mushrooms i get a little protective.
shamanism by mircea eliade is The treatise on the subject of shamanic flight, and the use of amanita ritually by shameless shamans.
i and thou, we all huggle
I've spent too many days in Eureka this week and missed the "frayed end of the thread." Rats! I enjoyed catching up this morning.
I wish I didn't have to go North again then I would squeeze some thoughtful words from my brain into the keyboard and onto the screen. But I do. So I'll just tell Suzie that she wears the prettiest white hat I've seen!
thnx Kym, pretty white hats are nice but Suzy'd much rather have a black belt ;)
cute.
all that 4-10giving has made me ferget what...oh yes salacious holy water talk. i actually was pretending to defend public morals on this blog but i personally wasn't offended.
many holymen (shamans) of native peoples have a fluid notion of the planes of consciousness. most of these amanita using tribal doctors are in the eastern part of russia, in all those risk board game places ending in utsk. whereas we go to redwood rurals for a problem, those folks go to their doctor. with the aid of drums, singing, and "predigested amanita juice", the shaman goes into "flight" and he often will talk to spirits or deceased relatives about the problem, or sucks something out of the body. a little different approach than the AMA.
seems to work for them.
pardon my false prurience suze, it was actually torture not riffing on what you originally said.
when you are not in your three piece suit writing, i suspect that you wear a shaman U sweatshirt around...with appropriate black and white accessories.
I have never been a spiritual person, and I also have a great fear of not having complete control of myself.
Ernie --i guess it all depends on how u define spiritual. Seems to me that it has a lot more to do wiht not wanting or needing to control others than it has to do with the degree of fear that you might or might not have of losing control of your sel.f
OMR --fluid notion LOL!
oxoxox
s
yes yes and yes!
ernie is clearly a naturally spiritual person...it shows in his tolerance of differences, service to others, ability to make fun of hisself, and grand appreciation of nature. too often we associate spiritual with church-going, or talking the talk.
from my experience, our blogmeister has all the "tells" of a naturally spiritual man, and he walks it.
that said, i won't be putting you up for sainthood...yet.
Please don't squeeze the shaman...
but group huggles are ok"
that was aluna joy. i just googled stuff to suzies q.
who you really are is who is left after who you never were leaves.
if yuo cant find the shaman in aisle five --try doing a huggle-search.
huggles,
the reason why so called science isn't found on the same ailse as the sharmin is because the church put it by their holy water section. just in case any scientist deviates from church doctrine, say 3 hail marys and lord please forgive me i have sinned and i will never read a quantum porno book again. and drink a pint of holy water. this has been going on for over a hundred years now. business is business. so you have the same old dark ages science being peddled and taught in schools that seems to work in the macrocosim but not in the microcosim. all this stuff keeps women enslaved in islam and different religions at war with each other about who is right and there can be only one true path. meanwhile, native americans who still hold to the old ways, shake their heads, and say we know the way to make the world safe for 7 generations down the road. which road do you think leads straight to hell. right, the one were on right now.
For a second there, I thought you were going to say Spy Rock Road...
reHuggling, its called duality and one needs two have at least 2 paths ...interwaeving ... 2 voices, so to speak (so two speak)... and then to cause enough but not too much friction so that u know wheather yr coming or ... uh uh uh, whare am we? oh thats right, the little women enslaved in the quantum porno book, and how church doctrine inspired the invention of the atom bomb --4give me lord 4 thinking these dark naughty thoughts sometimes if i eat ice cream sometimes it can make you feel better and forget about whos controlling the destiny of the seventh generation and... And now scientists have been inspired to make nukes small engough to hide in a hollowed out Bible, 4give us etc ahem... talk about obscene material.
but like u already said, business is business, and it gives one something to do... and if you invent something, somebodys gonna use it, right?! ... well we hope not but for the sake of science and God you probably will want to test it and then after you test it youll want to sell it because its good 4 the economy which is to say its good --for posterity?
hmm, Suzy feels like a chocolate sundae, a scoop of spyrocky road and a scoop of strawberry fields, with lots of nuts but you can skip the hollowed out cherry atop.
oxoxo,
s
how to save california's economy?
THE MUNCHIES!
brilliant suz! late night convenience stores will have lines out the door. legalize it and you will have to double stock those ice cream freezers, opening and shutting the doors will wear out the refrigerator whatchamacallit, ernie will get more business...
i hope that you are talking about small production hemp milk ice cream.... spyrocky road sounds great. tooby ranch chip? unstable slurps? salmonberry (made with real crick water and goji berries)? marbled mendo?
rainbow ridge neopolitan? huckleberry swirl?
'course growing all those seeds is going to piss off the neighbors.
I'm sure I am going to piss a lot of people off here.
When i was young, a hundred years ago, I felt like things where getting shoved down my throat and I had no control so I moved to Alaska. Now days everybody else that lives in the country I used to love is going to have the same expeariance shoved down their throat. Just remember to vote your heart and know you get what you vote for.
March 7 11:28
Sorry, this was a post from Oregon ans did not sign it. Just wanted all to know whom to cuss and wish dead.
Oregon
Oregonian...no one here is going to cuss you for speaking your mind and trying to warn us. That is a service. Lots of us know that worse stuff is coming down the pike and the gubmints response won't be pretty.
Thanks for speaking up...and feel free to elaborate...
If folks don't ridicule me for gunking up up the threads with meta-gibberish like some kind of ee cummings nut high on oxycontin and booze, you are pretty safe.
u forgot piss-stash-eeo!
The commenters on this blog are almost becoming family to me. (with the remarkable exception of those that ARE family) If the average person would come across this blog and read the comments, they would look a lot like gibberish. But, just like a family, I understand the subtle references to things that we understand, but no one else would.
I'm thinking that it would make a good post, on how people that know each other communicate on a different level of understanding than those that don't know each other.
But the sun is shining brightly and the yard work is nagging me. My wife doesn't nag, but she has the “Look” that wives have that let you know that today is not a day to get caught at the keyboard. So, later....
Dang Ernie, you have been married to Janis for 38 years and I was wondering just how much more can you take?
The sun is shining here too and think I will get off the keyboard and procrastinate.
suz...thanks for the inspiration, and suggestion. when it comes time to write those florid prose labels like wine has, i think you have a job.
what i want to know is why a woman becomes 10 times more powerful when they mildy glare at you over the top of their glasses?
when it comes time to write those florid prose labels like wine has, i think you have a job.
o o
O O
----
while ernie was out doing yardwork, i had to go to franks 70th surprise birthday at an italian restaurant. frank used to play bass back in the 60's and his band actually played at the fillmore. he now plays bass with all these elderly hawaiian people strumming on their ukes. these guys were playing the b c and d sides of your all time hawaiian favorites. they must have played for 3 hours. the pizza was just the appetizer. there was a full italian dinner after that and cheescake for dessert. too bad they didn't have that spyrocky road ice cream.
today we hit all the bookstores and i found that kroeber book that ben told me about months ago for 7 bucks and another book entitled "god is not dead" or the scientific rediscovery of god. go figure. blog and it is given.
earlier this week, my ex called me up on my cell phone which is unlisted for the first time in 7 years. she told me not to be so supportive to my step kids because it is making her look bad. {these people are both about 40 years old.} that i was an insensitive sob and that it was my fault that they hated her husband and didn't want to get to know his kids. she told me that she would never forgive me for all the rotten things i did to her when we were married but that she could easily forget me, in a new york minute. and does so all the time. and ended saying that she felt alot better about things after our talk and that she would call me again sometime. so if there is anyone else out there that is pissed off at me somehow, if you can't forgive me, just forgetaboutit.
This 'god is not dead' BS, seems to Suzy to be teh same old monotheism, now scientifically updated for the modern believer, --there's only one God, Creator, 'Force' etc. and he's the same creator of you, me, and everyone, --and now we've got a sound scientific basis to prove it... Or in other words, Science has "rediscovered God". The latest scientific texts have the Truth and are the modern version of the "Word". ie scientists are the new shamans, priests, gurus, etc. of a dominating world religion called Science.
uh, No thanks, i dont buy it, Suzy'd rather follow her heart.
but i do beleive in cheezecake and that yr ex is the devil.
oxxo,
s
Legalize it and end the farce - I agree.
Funny thing is, Ernie, I pretty much have a live and let live kind of outlook. But I'm at the end of that on this issue.
As the growers have decided to muscle up and affect things politically, the hypocrisy has been staggering beyond belief.
All the backing for Gallegos/anti Palco suit over some words on a contract - coming from people who themselves would go to jail for so many outright violations, much less nuances on a piece of paper - not the least of which is the tax evasion and labor law violations. Just one example.
They quit being live and let live.
You can't have it both ways. You want to be part of society than pony up. You want to dictate how people conduct business - right back at ya.
Maybe there's a silver lining - maybe the Pot activists will become anti-tax activists. Could actually end up being good for ALL of us - maybe something like The Fair Tax.
Time Magazine editorial on legalizing marijuana.
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