I picked up the Times-Standard this morning and read with stunned outrage that the Berwyn Heights, Maryland, police broke into the Mayors home and killed his dogs, handcuffed him in his underwear for two hours while they sorted out that they had made a mistake. (Actually, it was 8-8-08’s paper; I hadn’t sent my dog up to get Saturday’s paper yet.)
Apparently drug smugglers were addressing packages of Marijuana to random recipients. When the packages were delivered, an accomplice would scoop the package off the porch before the homeowner could take it in, thus allowing the smugglers to remain anonymous. (“Anonymous“, another word that I’ve come to dislike in certain contexts.)
The Police are still holding the Mayor “Under Suspicion”, because they still haven’t been able “rule out their (his) involvement”.
Now, take the time to hug your dog, as I did. The Mayor’s dogs were gentle pets, (Labradors) but they were reacting as any dog would when their people or territory was being threatened. One dog was shot as it was running away! I hugged my dog again, and went up to get my own paper this morning.
I’ve always felt safe from the Marijuana industry because I don’t use it, I don’t grow it, and I don’t buy or sell it. Maybe I ship a little through our shipping service, but my involvement is not intentional. I know full well that it is the main source of Garberville’s economy. If and when I see it, I think of it a fern. So, I think of myself as a completely innocent bystander. See no evil, hear no evil, say no evil. That’s me! Innocent Ernie…
I would like to think that this could never happen in Humboldt County. I have many friends that are law enforcement officers; indeed I have often been impressed with their wisdom and discretion in dealing with our local miscreants However, with rogues like the “Code Enforcement Units” being asked to find things with no search-warrants, and they are out there with no supervision, we are forcing the possibility similar mistakes.
My dog is friendly and loves people and children, but that only complicates things when she thinks they are threatened. She will instantly ask a person to freeze in their tracks if she thinks that they are a threatening interloper. One more hug for my dog and then I’ll move on.
Chapter one: From my prospective.
With all the public meetings and blog posting on diesel spills, I though that this might be a good time to discuss the “them and us” surrounding the marijuana industry. A much respected person in our community, Jonelle Freidkin Monschke, stated at the Diesel Spill Meeting at the Garberville Vets Hall that; “We are all us”. Meaning that what hurts one of us hurts all of us, or we are all in this together. The best description of that situation is “WE are all in the same boat”. Jonnelle is married to Jack Monschke, an old high school classmate of mine. Jack has always been a trusted and natural born leader. He was our student-body President. He has history and knowledge of this country from logging, ranching, road building, to seeing all of the new people move into this area. I would trust Jonelle or Jacks opinion on anything local.
Unfortunately a better description of what is happening right now is; “WE are all in the same Donner Party” and the major growers are going to survive no matter what. They have huge investments and need to turn huge profits to fill their needs. They are coming dangerously close to swamping our boat, and they have begun throwing the environment and us overboard in order to survive. There is absolutely no reason that they cannot use safe containment tanks, yet they don’t. I’m sorry, that is not a ‘us” attitude, it’s a ‘me” attitude, or, as I said before, a Donner Party attitude, or survival of the toughest.
I had the good fortune of running into Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman the other day at the Reggae Rising event, I asked him about the bust that they made south of Island Mountain, in Northern Mendocino county. This was a very large corporate style grow with many people involved. They had large groups of greenhouses. I know Tom personally, he is a friend of mine. I know all of his family. He went to school here, and knows most of the local people. He knows people, that knew people, that went back to the bootleg alcohol days, before Marijuana. Tom was in the local Volunteer Fire Department with me, we fought fires, and trusted each other together. He was a volunteer “Peacekeeper” that went to Kosovo. He is a good and decent person. I’m telling you this so you will know why I trust him.
I asked Tom this question. I said; “No bullshit Tom, how much processed marijuana did you get at Island Mountain”? Toms reply was “No Bullshit Ernie, eight-hundred pounds”. He went on to say that not one single person that he has met tried to justify that size grow to him. Not the “215 growers”, not the indoor, or outdoor growers, not Ma and Pa, not the recreational user, nobody was sorry to see this operation go. So, why do we tolerate that size grow in our neighborhoods? I am led to believe that size operation is surrounded by violence, and contempt of the law.
They are not “us”.
Chapter two: Fair warning.
In the Shelter Cove Grotto, in a time long ago, there was a young sheriffs deputy that came to be the program for our local Rotary Club. In his presentation, he stated that if we tolerated the growth of Marijuana in our area, that there would be “Hell to pay”. He went on to state that the Marijuana industry would ruin the environment by using up all of the available water. They would fill the creeks with fertilizer that would choke what water that was left with algae. They would stop people from buying land and houses in our area for retirement purposes. He said that they would run off any kind of industry that might try to move here. He stated that we would look just like Italy does with regards to the Mafia. We would look up to the wealthy growers and be tolerant of them because of their benevolence.
After that, I watched the timber companies spray their timber with herbicides, with the two-fold purpose of eradicating the worthless hardwood timber, and the tongue and cheek purpose of getting rid of the Marijuana growers that were growing on their land. The growers immediately organized as an “Environmental Group”, designed to rouse public sentiment to stop the spraying. Some were honest environmentalist. Others were not so honest, but only concerned about their weed. There were good guys and bad guys on both sides. Out of this wildcat environmental group grew other environmental groups, with the dedicated purpose of stopping logging all together. They used rumors about all of the stillborn babies that were “happening” they included photos of afterbirth looking stuff and said that it was what was left of a baby that was born after timber companies sprayed.
Soon we had movements like “Redwood Summer”, Earth first, and Epic. All dedicated to stopping logging. Again, some were honest and dedicated people, but most of the participants of these groups were marijuana growers and users. Most of them know nothing about the growth cycle of a forest, or even the life cycle of a single tree. All they knew is that they were involved in saving “Mother Earth” and they had really, really good drugs that were readily available to the groups. That was just a major plus for them. Most of them had no life anyway, and there were people willing to provide food and drugs for them to be part of the “Environmental Movement”. How cool, and the warm friendly social life was new and exciting to them. They formed heroes, and heroines in their groups. They did things that to regular people seemed quite bizarre. Their behavior was not understood by many. The locals questioned the need for a “drum circle” and were confused about it’s purpose. These strange people were attacking the local loggers way of life, and the loggers didn’t understand that it was all retaliation for spraying their marijuana. The activists fantasized about the time that the logger would be gone and they could grow their marijuana on the warm fertile hillsides that would be left behind, and they would dream about how good life would be without the logger. It was obvious that most of them were in love with the “Movement” more than the “environment“.
Chapter three: conclusion
Well, the deputy was wrong on some counts, but he was right about the water disappearing, the creeks drying up, and the algae bloom. He was right that the grower would drive off legitimate industry, he was right that we would all look up to them because of the good things that they do for our community.
Most of us smugly thought that we were safe from all the lawlessness, because we weren’t involved. Now we are dangerously close to having our lives invaded by both the grower and the cops. It is no longer a safe world. There is no longer enough sand to hide our heads in, and the turmoil is closing in from all sides.
I hate to think what I might do if my dog or my family was the innocent victim of either side!
Saturday, August 9, 2008
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80 comments:
Wow, Ernie. Just, wow.
Here, here Ernie. This sounds like my thoughts from A LONG time ago.
Oregon
"Most of us smugly thought that we were safe from all the lawlessness, because we weren’t involved." That's what I thought more than 20 years ago when my family and I were affronted with an execution-style death of a young boy. The stark reality of that situation put all our lives at risk.
You say, "I hate to think what I might do if my dog or my family was the innocent victim of either side!"
I feel the same as you. So, what's the answer?
So Oregon, What did you do to change it? We tried; we lost, a long time ago.
Back in the early seventies, Judge Thomas sold us down the river. He told the cops in no uncertain terms to leave the growers alone. He was subject to a recall, and he won the election, which in his mind was a mandate to protect marijuana growing.
Then proposition 215 was passed, and it became a mandate to the grower to drop all the stops. As I recall, after prop 213 passed, a quote in the Oakland paper was "Marijuana is defacto legal, they can no longer stop the grower". Strangely, it didn't look like sick people that were doing the celebrating.
So many bad things were brought to us by people disguised as Trojan Horses. How were we to know that Medical Marijuana would bring abuse of the system, but if you say anything bad about Marijuana, they bring the old red herring back out and say “Hey look at this, you are trying to hurt sick people“.
As I see it the people of California were given a hell of a lot of privilege, and I think that they should be charged to show a hell of a lot of responsibility. You would thing that the legitimate medical people would object to any abuse of the system because it jeopardizes the very thing that they worked so hard to bring about, but I don’t see any outrage. All I see is a silly grin.
Joe blow said; I feel the same as you. So, what's the answer?"
I bear the guilt of not doing something about it a long time ago. When Thomas wasn’t recalled, and it became apparent that we were going to have to live with it, I formed a new philosophy toward the weed. I am ashamed to say that I just decided that I'm not a cop and I'm not a robber, or a grower. My only position was to lose, and I wanted no part of it, and admittedly I still want no part of it, but when it knocks on your door, and you are being held at gunpoint, it becomes your problem whether you like it or not.
Roger Rodoni advocated openly that he thought that it should simply be legalized. I wrote a letter to the editor saying that I didn’t want it to be legalized. That that would be a sledge hammer to the already poor economy of the North Coast. I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m sure that what ever we do, it should be done slowly and deliberately.
Don’t fall for the Trojan Horse talk about being prejudiced against the Mexican people just because they seem to be deeply involved in growing. Not many people have anything against the Mexican people, but they are being used as a front, just like the poor sick people that prop 213 was passed for.
A good place to start is with the huge grows that nobody wants. What is the street value of eight-hundred pounds of Marijuana? Is it worth killing you for? Can the cops protect you?
I wonder if the second amendment was written for people that live in a poor and rural society that can’t afford an adequate police force.
Well, I moved. There was not a better place on earth than Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity counties back in the 50's and 60's. I'm not sure why it got out of hand but my perspective is the "pillars" of the communities that existed at the end of the 60's and early 70's saw a boom in sales of trucks, guns, clothes, groceries ect..and that had a big influence on how our laws were enforced. That's just my point of view.
Oregon
When that boy was murdered and I realized the immediate threat that act posed to my family and others I cared about, I got off the fence too. Every garden I came across I bulldozed. I also formed a philosophy, not to the weed, but to the growers and our society that exploited and tolerated these criminals. I know about Judge Thomas and his political kind of justice. It's called anarchy; or at least he and his kind helped plant the seeds.
As far as I was concerned, this activity was either stamped out our legalized. One thing I learned, even though I was never of that ilk, people know who's growing and where. It's one thing to turn a blind eye to what's going on when you don't think it affects you or yours, but you can put that responsibility upon the proper authority by reporting what you know is a fact. It's about character and personal responsibility. You're right. We've all been on the fence way too long. This so-called war on drugs is a farce. It is used as an excuse for implementing other more insidious agendas. We don't need Federal troops tromping around our communities, willy-nilly with carte blanche any more than we we need Federally funded SWAT and other autonomous “troops” quietly remanding us into a police state. If we have learned anything from recent history, there is no such thing as “an adequate police force” in the midst of anarchy.
The fact there is so much “weed” growing in these hills tells you that the local people have already voted on the matter. Since when are the “cops” even interested in protecting us, the general, law-abiding public?
Why do you say legalizing “would be a sledge hammer to the already poor economy of the North Coast”?
Interesting point(s) of view.
Southern Humboldt/ even NoHum(the people and the economy)has been and is corrupted by the marijuana industry. SoHum looks up to the growers because they have the money. I heard one lady remark recently about the 22 year old's that never graduated high school but have a 1/2 million dollar house, a $50K diesel truck or two, several quads, and so on.
SoHum now has 2nd and 3rd generation dope growers. Who did they learn that from?
800 pounds of processed weed is worth a couple million at lowball wholesale prices. Did I mention tax free?
Community meetings on the "diesel growers"! So perverted, so sick, so sad. It almost makes me laugh.
A community that has a radio station to warn the growers when the cops may be coming and makes inquiries to the cops on behalf of growers. A radio station that repeats whatever the callers tell them over that airwaives without any verification. What kind of community has that?
Anyone that turned blind eye to the growers over the years bears a certain amount of the blame for what has become of Humboldt County.
If you're familiar with SoHum and the hills of SoHum think of how many people came to Humboldt just to grow weed.
It has gone too far. With the weed money buying (or at least renting) elected officials nothing will ever change. No decent industry will come. But there is an abundance of places to buy generators, fertilizer, quadrunners, grow lights, and such. Just pick up a copy of the Free Trader and see who does the advertising.
I say that legalizing it would be a sledge hammer approach, because it would. The price of marijuana would drop from thousands of dollars a pound to the price of a pack of cigarettes. The money that moves to and from Humboldt county would stop. The economy would stop, and many, many innocent people would be hurt.
Most of the businesses that have come to depend on the local weed dollars, would suffer, and some would fail. Building supply stores, grocery stores, and most all retailers that had nothing to do with bringing Marijuana to the county would suffer. Rentals would be impossible to rent, medical facilities would suffer. Overnight legalization would hurt many innocent people.
The industry didn’t happen overnight, and it can’t be adjusted to zero overnight without complete disaster. The sheriffs department doesn’t make many arrests because they are poorly prosecuted. The growers elected the present D.A. (Follow the money)
I have never ratted on anyone, and I never intend to, having said that you will probably say that I am the problem. Well, so be it. It is not my place to be getting involved in law enforcement. Usually private citizens do more harm than good by getting involved in law enforcement. Fact of the matter is, I have friends that I’m sure grow minor amounts. I feel that it is okay to be friends with growers. My rule is I don’t want to know about it. If I don’t rat on people, but I don’t have to feel bad when they get busted. Most of them know the risk that they take. I defy anyone in Humboldt county to say they don’t know a grower.
Also, I’m sure that my friends are not the “problem” growers.
The police say that they need public support to solve the problem, and public says that they need the police to solve the problem. It’s a catch twenty-two situation.
But, what ever happens they need to back out slowly.
"Anyone that turned blind eye to the growers over the years bears a certain amount of the blame for what has become of Humboldt County."
Your rather naive assumption also does nothing to solve the problem.
Although I agree with your assessment; those that did nothing bear the blame, we also could do nothing. My cousins and I are fifth generation native of the South Fork of the Eel. It is in our blood. The air that I breathe in the morning smells good to me, this is my home!
Some of the local people tried to get rid of the growers by means not necessarily with-in the law. Some of them were jailed for their efforts. When the Judges are telling you to leave the grower alone, and we tried to recall him and failed, the DA refuses to prosecute, and our local sheriff department lieutenant was a big time grower. (He was convicted and sentenced.) People have a tendency to give up.
My cousins left because they saw the writing on the wall. I think that they were more wrong than me; they gave up on something that they loved. I don’t want to leave. Like I said this is my home. How foolish would it be to fight a quixotic fight that was a no-win situation? One person could not fight a battle like that have any expectations of being able to live here. So, I made peace with myself. I decided that it was a fight that I couldn’t win and it was no longer my fight. My job was to be a merchant and a contractor, and I quit smelling the money to see where it came from.
I have gotten along quite nicely, and have become a fast and trusted friend to many of the growers and indeed we have a lot in common, trying to survive and all. I have become a victim of the Stockholm syndrome where I have come to agree with my captors. As a matter of fact, I have come to greatly admire some of them. Some are people of enormous talent. I have come to think of them as eccentric aunts, except for their one minor flaw they are great people.
Your cavalier attitude that I am to blame is certainly one that doesn’t know the history! After four or five generations of that attitude, though familiar, it becomes tedious.
Rose, just wow good, or just wow bad?
My cavalier attitude, huh?
Thank you for never knowing when to shut up. You made my point in spades.
What do you know about my history? You don't have a clue about me buddy, but I know you and I know your family.
Complicit enablers are as guilty as those that commit the crime.
What goes around comes around, despite your whining. You brought this mess on yourself and when your crap spills over on me I'll know exactly who is responsible.
Ernie Branscomb said...
I say that legalizing it would be a sledge hammer approach, because it would. The price of marijuana would drop from thousands of dollars a pound to the price of a pack of cigarettes. The money that moves to and from Humboldt county would stop. The economy would stop, and many, many innocent people would be hurt.
============
DT responds:
You know that was something that Roger used to say to me, that the people told him all the time. I think (know) its way off base. If we look at area’s that have legalized cannabis, or put it under government production; they all are the same price or even more then it is here in Humboldt.
Here are some observations from areas where cannabis has been legal:
Netherlands has had legal cannabis for 30 years (bars, growers et al) price comparisons show that cannabis is the same or cheaper here at clubs in Humboldt. Here’s a sheet with price comps and where to find updated pricing. It’s on the Board of Sup’s web site:
http://co.humboldt.ca.us/board/agenda/questys/MG101425/AS101471/AI107347/DO107849/3.TIF
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Also in the Netherlands the Dutch Ministry of Health, since 2003, has ‘financed’ (subsidies) a government grow (Stichting Institute of Medical Marijuana “SIMM”). They found that they couldn’t keep up with the prices at the local shops, and have canceled the program
Citations:
Netherlands: Govt Losing Money On Cannabis Sales June 7, 2005 New Zealand Herald Netherlands: Famed 'Coffee Shops' Undercut Governments Medical Marijuana
Sluggish Sales May Stop Legal Dutch Pot June 7, 2005 Register-Guard (OR) Arthur Max, AP
--
Health Canada contracted with growers to produce legal Medical cannabis for the government. The growers got a 6 million dollar government contract (Prairie Plant Systems). Their first grow was so low potency that it was rejected, their next one was a little better.
Health Canada upped the price 1,500% for this low quality ‘weed’ and put it on pharmacy shelves.
Most medical patients in Canada use privet clubs, again these are priced above Humboldt County club prices. The last I heard Health Canada was being investigate for this and is dropping it’s production program in favor of privet people who are currently doing it. (ie Local growers)
Citations:
Health Canada Marks Up Medical Marijuana 1,500% - 4/16/2007 Winnipeg Free Press
High Markup On Feds' Medicinal Pot - 4/16/2007 Daily News, The (CN NS) Page: 7 Author: Dean Beeby
Ottawa Puts High Price Tag on Its Pot 4/16/2007 Globe and Mail (Canada)Author: Dean Beeby, Canadian Press
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As to a legal pot farm that IS (or is trying to) make money that is supported by the government, we have to travel to England and take a look at GW Pharmaceuticals! GW was founded in 1998 and listed on the London Stock Exchange. They have come out with a ‘spray’ that contains about (as the company touts) “about one joints worth of marijuana in a 51 ‘sprits’ sprayer.” It costs $125 in Canadaian money. The product is not liked by most patients who’ve used ‘real’ cannabis, as being too weak and tasting horable. (and at $125 a ‘joint’ it’s a rip off too!)
BTW Mariol (another attempt at making medical cannabis but a synthetic version) costs over 1,500 dollars a month, and works great as a sleeping pill. It’s so strong that it nocks patients out, also you can’t ‘titrate it’ like you can plant cannabis, eg you can’t just do a little, the smallest dose is so strong even 1/2 is too much for most patients who need it. They prefer whole plant cannabis; smoked, vaporized or eaten. One can always use ‘just enough’ and not over do it, and of course cannabis (even at street prices) is cheeper than any of these pharmicutal substuits.
Citation on GW’s spray:
CORPORATE CANNABIS Feb 1, 2005 The Walrus(Canada) Brian Preston
- some ‘notes’ from it, just incase you think that the owner has anything but making a buck on his mind. He’s looking at cornering the market:
“But if you are an MS sufferer, it would still be illegal for you to grow cannabis at the bottom of the garden to treat your symptoms. Our medicine will be legal, but anything else will not be." ~ Sir Guy head of Sativex
“There's a lot of people who will have a long discussion about what a medicine is, but I am a pharmaceutical physician, and my definition of a pharmaceutical [product] is a 'worthwhile medicine that makes money.' " ~ Sir Guy head of Sativex
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In April of 2003 a “Prosperity Strategy Analysis” was done by HSU Proff’s and support staff it included marijuana growing. They felt that the passing of p215, cannabis legalization et al … “The economic ramifications of marijuana legalization would indeed be devastating to Humboldt County.” Because ‘generates 200-500 million dollars through marijuana production every year” http://www.humboldt.edu/%7Eenvecon/econ_309/Prosperity/swot14.htm
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My final comments:
Well medical cannabis has been around for over 10 years and though the prices have dropped a bit, it hasn’t gone down to ‘the price of a pack of cigarettes’ (obviously)
This ‘urban legend’ pops up all the time “if it were legalized the prices would drop” most recently it was in print see:
North Coast Journal February 2, 2006 Cover Story “Bankers’ Lunch”
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/020206/cover0202.html
Read the 2 bankers impressive resumays up top – then scrool down the page to the bottom 1/4 to the heading “SPITULI STATE” for their repeat of this ‘legend’ this ‘Group Fantasy’ that if MJ was legal that some ‘pie in the sky’ tobacco company or someone would drop the prices?
No one in industry or business drops prices, of a stably priced item. Cannabis has a stabilized price, it will drop a little, like it does at the end of year when the ‘harvest flood’ hits and people who need the money ‘short sell’ (That’s what its called by real business people.) Most people that have money that grow, sit on it for a few months until the price goes back up.
So who is going to drop the price when it becomes legal? Farmers, governments, health departments, big tobacco or big pharmacy companies?
In every case I been able to find, prices stay the same or are pushed up by legal entities. The only ‘player’ that hasn’t gotten into the ‘game’ is “Big Tobacco” and do you really think that the people who sell cancer causing drugs to kids are going to drop the prices of cannabis?
Sorry the HTML links didn't come in I'll try again ..
BoS http://co.humboldt.ca.us/board/agenda/questys/MG101425/AS101471/AI107347/DO107849/3.TIF
Humm it didn't come in again. I'll try braking it into several peices you'll have to paste them together to get the link. Sorry I don't know how to do this as this kkeeps cutting it off ...
http://co.humboldt.ca.us/board/
agenda/questys/MG101425/AS101471/
AI107347/DO107849/3.TIF
Joe, I'm not saying that I'm not as much at fault as anyone else. You bulldozed plants, did it change any thing? I tried to help recall a judge, a judge which, just by the way, believed in what he was doing. I didn’t believe in what he was doing.
You say that I'm complicit. What could I have done differently? And still live here? And still run a business here? The war was fought, and the war was lost. I don’t see any solutions on the horizon, and I don’t want to be bitter about it. All the cops know what is happening here. Are they complicit?
Other than bulldoze plants, what did you do? I’m not asking this to be mean and nasty. I just know that making up a name doesn’t keep you clean. You know as much as I do if you live here. If you moved, you are not helping either. You’re not one of my cousins are you?
Anon, Thank you for your comment, I tried to fix your link. Try below.
marijuana Price
I grew up on the cusp of two cultures the ebb of the logging industry and the beginning of the marijuana industry. I find both cultures beautiful. But both had/have problems that we are fools to ignore.
We need to address those problems but we can't degenerate into an Us and Them mentality. This implies that one side is perfect and the other is evil. Common sense tells us that isn't true. It wasn't true of the loggers and it isn't true of the growers.
We need to discuss options honestly and be prepared for disagreement. We each need to do what we individually can and that may mean speaking out and taking the flak for speaking out.
In my opinion, our community needs to move away from diesel grows and, indeed from indoor grows altogether. Our community should be working for legalization AND preparing for it. I think the price will drop if legalized but we can work to minimize the problem.
Most of all though, we have to avoid demonizing people who do things we don't like. Change wrought by ugliness and hatred breeds more of the same in a different guise.
I researched some of the references that Anon provided me, and this is some of what I found. Granted I am looking at it from the idea that I think legalization will be devastating to our local economy. I invite Anon to just cut and paste some of the material that proves His/Her point.
“A clear weakness of the Prosperity Strategy is its avoidance of addressing the issue of marijuana in regards to its effect on the local economy. Georgianna Wood cited in her presentation the reason for its exclusion being that marijuana can not be included due to the difficulty in obtaining accurate figures. Since the authors of the strategy declined a rough estimation of these numbers, the issue was not addressed.’
“When asked to comment on the underground marijuana economy of Humboldt County, Dr. Hackett of HSU stated, “Humboldt County likely generates 200-500 million dollars through marijuana production every year. What would happen if marijuana were legalized?” The economic ramifications of marijuana legalization would indeed be devastating to Humboldt County. Pro-legalization laws such as Proposition 215 (Medical Marijuana) in California demonstrate that this issue needs to be addressed in the Prosperity Report.”
BTW Ermie, you may not agree with what Judge Thomas did but, to my memory, he honestly believed
1) he was doing the right thing
2) it might cost him his job
I knew him personally. He is one of my heroes.
Kym, thank you for your wise interjection. I have always tried to walk the line of diplomacy in this area, because I like people, but as you know I get defensive when I hear either side getting out of line or saying something unfair. A very wise politician friend of mine said that being middle of the road will only get you run over in both directions, and I have found that to be true.
As much as I would like to believe that there is no “them and us”, at some point you will have to agree that one side or another crosses that imaginary line that says “You are now one of them”. Whether it be a diesel spiller or a large corporate style grower, or a cop breaking your door down and shooting your dogs. They have become them, and that is easily evidenced by the mere fact that we are having this discussion.
The whole intent of this post was to say: “I don’t want the police invading my privacy, and I don’t want the growers ruining my environment.” So which side am I on? Once again it is proved that being “Middle of the road, only gets you run over.
But, thanks for the grounding influence, I needed that!
As to Judge Thomas, I agree with you that he was an honest man, that I honestly disagreed with, and I think we all now experiencing the profound affects of him protecting the right to grow Marijuana.
The laws against growing were in place, instead of enforcing them, he helped step around them. He should have enforced the law, and help to change the law if he didn’t like it. He is the reason that we have more than our share of growers, and I don’t think that there is any denying that. There is more than enough evidence that Ma & Pa dope grower, that cared about the environment, are being pushed under. But, I agree that Charles Thomas was an honorable person.
Gee, great minds work together.
Cristina on the same subject.
In regards to the local water issues, Welcome to 2008, the population of the US is over 300 million, we have no recourse over increased population densities and rural America is suffering because of it, especially really cool places like Garberville. Look at any hillside at night and the porch lights will enlighten you. How about the cove, lots of homes out there now, not so may yesterday, Ernie you probably remember when the cove was really quiet.
The population of the planet is the problem... marijuana, oil spills, pollution, low water flow... are merely symptoms of the much larger infection of the Earth by humans. No eradication is not the answer, but good open communications are a good start, and perhaps a nice big doobie to take the edge off before having to discuss our differences will help also. MMMMMM pot good, I am happy now. go clean up your mess. PEACE
I agree that over-population is a big problem. Yet, when discussed the consensus feels that technology will overcome the density problems, but I don't see any evidence of that happening. The environment is simply over-taxed.
Yes, I remember Shelter Cove when the largest truck that could go into it was a bob-tailed truck. I also remember my dad widening the road to get log trucks out, back then the county was glad to get the help on the roads. A log truck trailer is a steerable dolly that follows the truck tracks, and is capable of negotiating much narrower roads than a semi truck.
First, I broke one of my cardinal rules and decided to mix it up with you because, frankly, people like you disgust me. These are the words of a complicit enabler and a full-blown hypocrite: “My job was to be a merchant and a contractor, and I quit smelling the money to see where it came from.
I have gotten along quite nicely, and have become a fast and trusted friend to many of the growers and indeed we have a lot in common, trying to survive and all. I have become a victim of the Stockholm syndrome where I have come to agree with my captors. As a matter of fact, I have come to greatly admire some of them. Some are people of enormous talent. I have come to think of them as eccentric aunts, except for their one minor flaw they are great people.” These are the words of a despot.
There's a reason why people violate the law en-masse, grow “weed,” sell it by the ton to the detriment of all moral and ethical social value. There's also a reason why the police kick down doors, shove automatic weapons in the faces of innocent women and children, shoot dogs, tazer, torture and murder as a matter of policy with impunity.
When I told you that a boy was murdered execution-style and that act, by its very nature and circumstance, put my family's lives in danger, innocent pot-growing ceased to be irrelevant (a minor flaw) in my life. It touched me and mine in a very real way. When I told you I bulldozed pot gardens, I put my company and my crew in actual physical jeopardy. As did I when I notified the authorities. I wasn't whining about what I could not do or the sacrifices I was making unlike you and your money-grubbing Southern Humboldt business friends.
You say, “Also, I’m sure that my friends are not the “problem” growers.” Really? Since when are any of these people NOT “problem growers”? You so righteous that you can discriminate between one kind of lawbreaker from another “problem” criminal?
Ernie Branscomb said...
Joe blow said; I feel the same as you. So, what's the answer?" For you, personally, the answer was, “do nothing.” To that I said, “It's one thing to turn a blind eye to what's going on when you don't think it affects you or yours, but you can put that responsibility upon the proper authority by reporting what you know is a fact. It's about character and personal responsibility.” Here's your naive and tedious answer to character and personal responsibility: “The police say that they need public support to solve the problem, and public says that they need the police to solve the problem. It’s a catch twenty-two situation.” Nonsense!
If your so-called “public” want the police to solve the problem and the police want public support, then do what I said to do earlier, give them that support. You say you know who is growing pot, prove that your not just another mealy-mouth self-serving weasel and tell the police. Put it on them to do their job. I think you'll find that they'll jump at the chance to prove that they are here for us, the law-abiding people that depend upon them and not just themselves. If they all know what's going on, as you say, and do nothing about it, then YES, they are complicit. I ask you what else can you expect from them when all they have are people or a public that so disrespects them like you do backing them up?
You say you are a friend to these pot-growers, you said, “I have never ratted on anyone, and I never intend to ...” yet you admit trying to recall Judge Thomas because he was their real friend and writing a letter to Roger Rodoni to reinforce the criminal laws against marijuana so you can profit off the artificially high prices. What you managed to do is fool all your pot-growing buddies into thinking your on their side, when you are admittedly their worst enemy. Just like you fooled the police into thinking your a real law-abiding, upstanding pillar of the community when, in fact, you support the growers. The fact is, your neither!
Ernie Branscomb said...
I researched some of the references that Anon provided me, and this is some of what I found. Granted I am looking at it from the idea that I think legalization will be devastating to our local economy. I invite Anon to just cut and paste some of the material that proves His/Her point.
You just did it for me in your post ... You pulled up a 2003 report - which said that legization would be devsitating to Hum eco.
There is more pot being grown today then ever. 80% of it being grown by Mex Cartels (citation John Walters speaking last week ...
"Up to 80 percent of the marijuana grown in the United States is grown on public lands, much of it controlled by Mexican cartels, Walters said. The raids, he said, were meant as a message to those drug traffickers:
"Get out," he said. "You're not going to turn our communities and our national treasures into poison." "
--- and prices haven't dropped.
------------
Thanks for setting that link up - I realzied the 'problem' was non-existance with the HTML links - its just on the 'leave your comment' page it doesn't show that the full links have been replacated. Sorry live and learn.
-------
I've pasted in the links in my post above and they PROVE that in areas MJ has been legal for over 30 years that prices are the same or higher then they are here in Humboldt. The Dutch have MASSIVE MJ farms going on - the price just dosen't drop. Roger and I would discuse this in the Double A bar, in that he wanted to put that letter out to the US gov. et al that supported legization. Roger said that 'his friends in the hills' all said that legization would drop the prices --
I said they wouldn't and put this argument forth ... that NO WHERE that MJ or MMJ was legal - had the price ever dropped and in fact when 'fatory farms' and/or goverments get involved prices GO UP!
The citations in my post above about Netherlands, Canada and England all prove that beyond any argument. You pulled up the cite that I put in (one of two) in support of the Group Fanticy / Urban Ledgen that price would drop if it was legalized. Both the "Bankers Lunch" piece in the NCH and the "Pros_ Anal_" by HSU support this idea of 'price drop'
BUT they don't give any real data in support. They just 'asume' that it will happen - NO ONE has any cittions in support of thier 'theroy' that prices will drop.
I have given several many citations which show 'when legalization happens and factory farms take over - prices go UP'
Here they are again with links where I could find them:
Health Canada Marks Up Medical Marijuana 1,500%
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_9842.aspx
High Markup On Feds' Medicinal Pot Pubdate: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 Source: Daily News, The (CN NS) Page: 7 Author: Dean Beeby, CP
couldn't find the link for this one - but this came up ..
http://thelondonfog.blogspot.com/2007/04/last-day-for-sale-medical-marijuana.html
which covers the same subject .. High prices for production farmed pot ...
Ottawa Puts High Price Tag on Its Pot http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n483/a05.html?226
---------------
Netherlands: Govt Losing Money On Cannabis Sales
Famed 'Coffee Shops' Undercut Goverments Medical Marijuana
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05.n909.a04.html
Sluggish Sales May Stop Legal Dutch Pot
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v05/n901/a08.html?1329
===========
CORPORATE CANNABIS
http://www.walrusmagazine.ca/print/2005.02-medicine-medical-marijuana-activist/
NONE of these suggest that WHEN LEGALIZED AND PRODUCED ON LARGE FARMS anyone drops the prices of cannabis - period.
I don't know why the "pundants" that demand such tight 'citations' (HSU and BANKERS) in every other area, won't look at the reatlity of how pricing is stablized for this crop. No one is dropping the price, not the goverments, not the production farms!
The FUNNY in all this is that EVERYONE "cites" the old idea of 'well once the tobacco companies get involved' - I say FUNNY because if any one thinks that the same people who sell and market known cancer causing items; and JACK them up like 'crack' with things to make them more addictive. These are the people everyone looks to as the ones who will 'drop the price'?
Also another easy to find cite is 'how much did the price of booze drop when it was legalized?'
-- Guess what it didn't!!! -- Bronfman et al didn't drop the price once booze became legal! Read "King of the Castle" it traces the Bronfman family from bootlegs on the Canadain prairie to the richest family out side of the Arab world.
Go look up anything on the transistion from proabtion to legal booze NO price drop when booze became legal
... so this again supports the consept that this 'legilze weed and the price will drop" is BS .. totally unsupporable by ANY facts.
yours,
DT
Oh and one more - "chuckle" - I came in here to add in the frist place ...
Medo Fire Captain's home =
648 plants and a pound of pot stored. "with in p215" (I thought mendo's p215 was 25 plants w/tags? As of August 6, 2007 =
http://www.mendocinosheriff.com/services/prop215/ziptieqa.html
Guess when your the fire captin stuff like that doesn't apply to you. We'll see?
DT
Marijuana charges against fire captain reduced
By BEN BROWN The Daily Journal
Ben Brown can be reached at udjbb@pacific.net
Article Last Updated: 08/09/2008 12:03:17 AM PDT
http://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/ci_10148166
Naive? Who are you trying to fool Ernie? Realistic, yes but not naive.
I am curious about the issues with Judge Thomas. In the early 70's I was away from Humboldt for college/military and must have missed out on that.
I am also curious about your issue of being a "rat", or "ratting " on someone. Is it just marijuana growers, meth dealers, heroin dealers that you protect with your "code of silence" or does your code or misguided ethics extend to burglarers, child molesters, and common thieves? If you saw a "grower" friend of yours run over a hitchhiker, causing some serious injury, would you say nothing to the cops to live up to your not being a "rat" code??
Congratulations Ernie, you count the marijuana growers as your friends and the cops as the enemy. You worry about those that make money off the local marijuana industry or organized crime groups.
And you wonder why there is such a problem in Humboldt County.
Well, it is still my contention that one man can’t take on the world and win. Maybe some can, but I can’t, nor do I intend to. Do I cry when a big time grower gets busted? No. The world would probably be a lot better off if I took a running leap off a bluff, but I’m not going to do that either!
John Casali took on the job of trying to do something as simple as clean up the river. Yet there has been crap and lies spread about him that are unbelievable. He has gotten little support, and he has been condemned as discriminating against the homeless. He has had threats on his life and property, and all he wanted to do was clean up the river. There is no major financial threat to anyone to just clean up the river. So why is he being so roundly condemned?
There is some evidence that the growers are participation in a form of civil disobedience, because they don’t see the weed as harmful, and if they grow enough it will have to be legalized. Judge Thomas, (Sorry Kym) knowingly violated the law to protect growing weed. Our current DA does not even try to prosecute marijuana crimes. (Correct me if I’m wrong here.) What chance would John Doe citizen have to take on the world of Marijuana problems by themselves. “Joe blow“, who has deep history here, fought and lost all of the same fights that the rest of us did, and he got nowhere just like that rest of us did. We lost the war Joe, lick your wounds and lay down your weapons. Stop calling people that are willing to try to make the best of it names Like “a complicit enabler and a full-blown hypocrite”. There are still people out there trying to fight the civil war, but it’s over too. Isn’t it better to say we fought an honorable fight and lost, and move on. I can’t say that I don’t retain a certain amount of bitterness that this country didn’t go the way that I wanted, but I’m sure as hell not going to let it eat me up inside.
Kym wants to see us all get together and be “us“, but I draw a line when growers are spilling diesel in our creeks, and people are being shot. Those crimes need to be prosecuted regardless of marijuana. The greedy grows that are producing mega-quantities would be a good place to start. The cops need to stop breaking down doors when a phone call would solve the problem. If the people are in the house, they are not going anywhere. Chances are the people in the house are willing to be cooperative, especially if they know that their dogs will be shot if the cops come in.
With my apologies to the good law officers that have done their jobs well, and Ma and Pa grower, that is breaking the law, but protecting the environment, while being civilly disobedient.
Dangit Ernie, you sure opened a hornets nest with this Blog. You can't win here as I see it.
It used to be a simple life when the loggers fought behind the Blueroom over scale tickets. I decided it was time to move on when the bars started glueing sandpaper on the lids of the toilet tanks and adding diamond plate to the walls in the restrooms. The locals got caught up with the ways of the pilgrams and it was down hill from there. I personally don't have a problem with the weed but I have a big problem that the "pilgrams" moved here and did more than change a life style I grew up with.
I am getting on a roll here so think I better stop.
Oregon
You can provide information to the cops annonymously. Or on the QT.
If everyone thought that one man (person) couldn't make a difference and took on the "I don't give a shit attitude" our world would be a sad place. Maybe I shoud say a sadder place.
I enjoy hearing about any dope grower, meth dealer, heroin dealer, or violent criminal getting busted. Even if the DA just gives them a light spank.
Ernie, what do you think of your friends that don't have a "real" job, they just grow and sell weed for a living? They pay sales tax on all the goodies they buy, property tax on all their property but No income tax. They are most likely to e the ones that bitch the most about the government.
I hope the feds (IRS) come back and take a closer look at tax returns (or the lack of filing) for anyone w/ a SoHum address. They wouldn't even have to press criminal charges, just access back taxes. Would that be considered profiling? Probably not since it has nothing to do with race, creed, color, religion, sexual orientation and so on.
I don't think you can slowly legalize anything, Ernie. Can you imagine what a disaster slow legalization of alcohol would have been after Prohibition? Where would you even begin?
It's legal, or it isn't. I'm all for legalization (hell, it WAS legal until the Feds needed a new demon to replace alcohol after Prohibition was dropped in the 1930's). There are multiple reasons for this, which I have expounded upon many times, but the simplest one is that there's a huge, HUGE demand for it, and you're not going to stop that... which means you're not going to put an end to the violence. It's not meth and it's not crack, for crying out loud. It's something people have used for thousands of years. Some people use it moderately, some people abuse it. The same is true of alcohol, pain pills, and every other body- and mind-altering substance known by humankind.
When Denmark decriminalized all drugs in the mid-1960's, there was a sharp spike in drug use for about 18 months after decriminalization, and then it dropped to below-decriminalization levels... and has stayed there ever since. What does this go to show? That there were a bunch of people who wanted to try certain things, but hadn't because they were illegal - and then they promptly decided it wasn't for them anyway. The people who REALLY want it are going to get it regardless of what side of the law they're on.
The economy? It will survive. It'll be tough for a while, and then everyone will simply have to figure out how else to make a living. It really shouldn't be that difficult. I think there are a lot of tourism opportunities that get lost because people can't think outside the box - the box of easy marijuana money. How about better restaurants with proper service, spiffing up some of our motels, training our young people in eco-tourism... taking people out on canoes, hiking, photography expeditions in the redwoods? There is SO much potential in this stunning area that's completely lost because so many people have become lazy, comfortable, and complacent.
There's a huge movement back to the 19th-century paradigm of locally-grown food. How about our local farmers and ranchers making a REAL living from their love of the land, instead of just "extra money" at the farmers' markets?
If marijuana is legalized and the bottom of the black market drops out, maybe I'll feel safe again taking a solo hike in any number of state and national parks that have been hijacked by industrial growers.
I know people who grow "legally" for others who have legitimate 215's - diabetics with amputations, cancer patients, etc. But you know what? I frankly don't believe they should have to depend on this asinine system to be "legal." No one asks these same farmers for certification on their lettuce and tomatoes before they share them with their sick friends.
This country was a bloody mess (literally) under alcohol Prohibition (see: Al Capone and all of his ilk). It's an even bloodier mess under marijuana prohibition. It's long, LONG past time to end it already. End the violence, end the environmental degradation, end the lucrative economy that enables sub-literate, well-armed 22-year-old boys to be thug millionaires who terrorize their neighbors (and don't EVEN get me going on the girls).
We live in what used to be a First World country. We will survive. We just need to think past our fears (and circuitous logic) of "Oh, I hate it [the marijuana economy], and I wish it had never happened, but now I'm dependent on it and I can't live without it!"
Sorry, that was kind of long.
Oregon.
Thank-you for your support.
I know that you understand better than anyone else what has taken place here. Somehow the conversation moves from the weed, to the grower, to the big time grower, to the big time criminal, to the polluter, to the dog killer, to the murderer, and if you say “hey wait a minute here we need to sort this all out“, somehow it becomes all your fault. Then they start back down the list and you become “the bastard calf” for not doing something, when you actually tried and lost. Then you start back up the ladder again and every single crime is your fault. From a hit and run artist, to child molestation. Yep, it’s all my fault and there’s just no use in denying it. I’m The Worthless Bastard that let this country go square to hell and there is just no fixing it.
Go ahead, laugh your ass off! I know you are enjoying seeing me grilled. Save a place for me I may need to run away too!
Anon 1:38
No, and I won’t be turning anyone in for doing 66 in a 65 zone either. Same goes with spitting on the sidewalk. Although I find spitting on the sidewalk to be disgusting, and I know it’s against the law. I just don’t find it productive to take on battles that I can’t win by myself.
I have my boundaries, so please don’t put words in my mouth, or leap to conclusions about me that I have not clearly stated myself. Try to learn to identify yourself when being personal, it has much more impact.
Cristina,
Never apologize for writing to much on my blog. Reading your stuff is like reading poetry. You even make sense.
My concern about legalization, and removing the value, is just that. If it has no value, I feel that our economy will collapse. If other theories are true that the price won’t drop, then how do we get rid of the 800 Pound Gorilla (literally, I knew you would get that one) that will still have a viable operation. Will pollution and murder be legal also?
If our economy goes to hell, wouldn’t it be funny if we all have to go back to logging to make a living. That would be great; I already know how to do that!!!
Christina:
I agree with what you said and I believe it is all over the hill. We can't go back to the way it was. When I was a child I used to walk to Harris and Fort Seward, I would go through Buck Mountain Creek on Toby (SP)land and hit the road at the Fort Seward cut-off. I also walked to Dos Rios going through ranch land and could tell stories of my deer hunting on these ranches that whould make some people mad. My point being that my kids were not allowed to ride horses or walk anywhere except on my Grandmothers place as it was in the 70's and not safe for them. I have a lot of hard feelings of the way Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity Counties have gone.
Oregon
I am meeting Jamey and Sandi in Reno to watch the Air Races in a few weeks. I love the P51 Mustangs and the sounds. The P51's sound better than my Vette, believe it or not.
Ernie, I hope you are not writing about me when you say "seeing you grilled". I have more respect for you than anybody I know.
Oregon
I find it odd when some urge snitching. My mom and dad taught me not to be a "tattletale" unless someone was going to get badly hurt. Marijuana, like alcohol and white sugar, are best used in small doses in my opinion. But, none of them are physically addictive and all can be used medicinally (hey, chocolate is the best antidepressant I've found!) None of them should be illegal and only marijuana is. I'm not telling anyone about someone growing what I think should be legal in the first place.
On a second note, I may be pretty sure that some people grow marijuana but that are darn few that I could legally witness against in a court of law. I'm suspecting the same is true for most of the rest of us. So turning people in isn't even an option, thank goodness.
Ernie, I don't agree that turning people into us and theme is ever productive. I'm not saying I never do it. I'm not saying I wouldn't turn a person who shot my dog or dumped diesel into my water into a them but I am saying it isn't productive and helpful to do so.
When we make the effort to say "I don't like what you did here but I know that you have many good qualities" people can hear us and can, in turn, not turn us into Thems. I try to remember that when dealing with people. I don't always manage;> Still I think it is an attitude we could all strive for that would make the world a nicer place.
“Ernie, I hope you are not writing about me when you say "seeing you grilled". I have more respect for you than anybody I know.”
Oregon, I hope this means you will help hide me when the law finds that I have been complicit in all this crime.
There is an old saying. “You can never go home again.”. I thought that by never leaving home, that somehow I could avoid that loss, but somehow “home”, where you and I were raised just slipped away, while I wasn’t watching. We are in an intractable situation, and the world that you and I knew as kids IS gone, forever.
Instead of agonizing over what we lost, I think that we should just enjoy what we knew, things that none of the recent arrivals will ever know.
We should enjoy the tales of our Camelot, our King Arthur, our maid Marion, and our Sir Galahad. Remember the mornings filled with mist, as we waited for the sunrise to go up the hill and bring in a skid of logs, Remember when we could walk forever, in any direction, without confrontation. Remember when there was fish to catch, and holes in the river so deep that we couldn’t dive to the bottom. Remember the days before everything wasn’t our fault, from the floods to the “destruction” of the forests. Remember when there was so few of us that we couldn’t hurt anything. Remember Grandma’s quince jelly. Remember back when our elders were wise, and we could listen to their stories like they just happened yesterday. We should remember our Camelot and tell the people that will listen.
I know that “Joe Blow” knows what I’m talking about. The reason that he and I argue so much is because we both miss what we have lost, and somehow assigning a blame makes us feel less guilty over letting it all go. I know in my heart, that we had no choice.
When a woman gets raped and she identifies her attacker is that "snitching" or being a "rat"? If I saw someone kick your dog, let alone shoot it, I would be a "rat". If I saw someone smack into your truck in Ray's parking lot and leave I'd take down the license number and be a "snitch". I never really thought that kind of attitude or mindset was bad. To me it's like being a good neighbor or a good citizen.
Just curious, it's kind of hard to understand.
I guess it really doesn't matter? You are what you are and I am what I am.
GMF
GMF, If there was big money in raping people and or shooting dogs you would see a lot more of it. I think growing pot used to be hard work but was worth the time and effort. However, it seems like some people ( most in the Emerald Triangle) do not have a work ethic and raise their kids the same way. It makes sense to live this way because you can pay cash for a new truck after 70 days and still have money left to take a vacation. I used to save for a couple years to come up with enough money for a down payment for a new truck. I know, I'm stupid. However I was raised with a little higher morals.
Now you can slice that anyway you want. People can always find a way to justify their life style.
Oregon
GMF,
Please accept what I’m about to say as constructive and not a personal attack.
In Reply:
I am glad to hear that. You should get started right away in cleaning up this marijuana mess. It’s gotten really big. Let me know when you succeed.
I too would come forward in the situations that you describe. Just as Kym pointed out, we all know who the growers are, none of us would be able to testify in a court of law.
I'm just curious, why does everyone blame ME for not solving the Marijuana problems? Obviously everyone out there has their opinions as to how it should be done. Why don’t you just go ahead and do it, you have never waited for my permission before.
Put your energy where your opinions are.
Oh Ernie. I'm a big boy and I go by big boy rules. With that in mind your "constructive" remark was intended as a personal attack and that's OK. I'm not crushed and my feelings are not hurt. I have done and am still doing my part to make a little headway on this marijuana issue. I have no problem with passing on information, observations, and even rumor.
I don't blame you for not solving the marijuana mess, don't know about others. But by your own blog statments you know it's a real serious problem yet you seem to condone it, enable it, almost promote it.
Enjoy your friends, neighbors, and lifestyle.
GMF
‘I guess it really doesn't matter? You are what you are and I am what I am.”
“Enjoy your friends, neighbors, and lifestyle.” GMF
Okay GMF, If you don’t mind it being personal let me ask a few personal questions. Obviously, I have my standards that you don’t approve of. What are your standards? Throw them out there for all of us to view. I showed you mine show me yours.
Would I turn it diesel in the creek? Hell yes. I’ve even tracked back diesel spills to see where they came from with the fire department. How about you? Would I object if the cops broke down my neighbors door and shot his dogs. Assuming that the police were wrong I would object.
Would you turn someone in for spitting on the sidewalk? Would you turn someone in for doing 66mph? Would you turn someone in for a 215 grow? (It’s Legal, you know) What length would you go to determine if your neighbor was a legal grower or not?
What standards do you use to determine when you have the right to know what you neighbor is doing?
I have clearly stated that I don’t want to know. And yes I enjoy my friends and neighbor and my lifestyle. But, I might add that it is probably quite different than you imagine. For instance, I have never used marijuana in any form. How about you? Go ahead and come clean, nobody knows who you are.
Don’t judge people until you know them a little better, I’m assuming that you don’t know me, or you would not have assumed that I have no character. If that is what you meant?
It amazes me that I post that prices of boozed didn't drop after it was leglized and people still are posting "Oh if it's legal everyone will have to go get a real job, bring back logging, take people on canoe trips ... bla bla bla"
Look it up - Booze kept it's price when it became legal ... Here's one of the books about it (I cited this before, there are others)
KING OF THE CASTLE, THE MAKING OF A DYNASTY: SEAGRAM'S AND THE BRONFMAN EMPIRE. By Peter C. Newman. New York, Atheneum, 1979.
Google it goes for about 10 or 15 bucks, covers the bootleg days and then to legal booze PRICES DIDN'T DROP!!!
Please someone show me some CITATIONS in support that leglization drops prices in any product?
----
As for the "how the new people ruined our nice county"
TWO THOUGHTS:
1.) Betch' the Indians feel that way about you guys who have families who settled it in the frist place. Bet they feel perrty PO'ed at what you did to THEIR nice land.
2.) on the other hand, I also think about the new people who've moved here lately, and how they get on my nerves and how I long for the "old humboldt" that I moved here for in the 1970's. Espcailly these idiot kids who buy or rent a bunch of homes and don't live in them just grow pot. And I don't live in So Hum any more (used to live oout on Miller Creek in B-land) so i don't experance the deisal in the creek - but if I did I'd be pissed and imagine I'd be doing something about it with my neghbors. Gawds how stuff must have changed in SoHum where even the 'new settlers' would allow that BS ...
DT
Oh I miss the old VD by the Sea - Samon runs so think that the Eel was full of fishermen and you could pick up fish --
More recently I miss the Socia Inn closing and the Eureka Inn and now OH's - so the only good stake (besides at home) is the Double A bar! Amazing how Humboldt has more resturants per capata but the only place to get a good stake is a bar!
and I miss Roger!
DT
DT
I think that just about anybody that amounts to a hill of beans or more misses Roger. I liked Roger a lot, I agreed with him a lot, I also disagreed with him a lot.
Make the best of life, it's much too short.
Back to the legal booze thing, maybe the price didn't drop, but who made it changed. It was no longer made in the back woods by Ma and Pa Kettle. It switched to being made by big business, and the little guy dissapeared. Also part of the price was a steep government tax.
Ditto, what Rose said, "Wow". I moved to H.C. in 1982. I worked as an LVN at Redwood Memorial. I remember having to tell patients that it wasn't O.K. to smoke pot in their rooms, because the oxygen could be explosive, and also smoking of any kind was not permissible in patient's rooms. (Back then the nurse's lounge allowed cigarette smoking - gross - eventually it was banned). I lived in Carlotta on Highway 36. Memorial Day was memorable, as there was a steady procession on pick-up trucks heading east to the hills with full truck-loads of chicken manure and plastic pipe. One neighbor of mine had a huge truck full of rice hulls from the central valley and unloaded the load on the old section of the old highway 36 in front of our house as well as all the neighbor's house. He had his "grunts" shovel it all into plastic bags to take to the grow in the hills. He also gave some to the other neighbors and to us to "loosen up the soil" in our vegetable gardens. I could write a book about how wide-spread the marijuana industry is, but I wouldn't be alone. Older folks would grow it to pay for their "pills".
I have been around it, as it is hard not to be around here, but for me it is better to be making a living with my brain. That is why I sell insurance.
Ma and Pa Kettle might have been MAKING a lot of the booze, Ernie, but the people DISTRIBUTING it were the Capones of the era. And they didn't fool around.
P.S.: Thanks for your sweet post on my blog.
“the people DISTRIBUTING it were the Capones of the era. And they didn't fool around.”
The new capons are the ATF, and they collect their “pound of flesh” in taxes, and they don’t fool around either.
I’m not arguing that we shouldn’t do something that takes the lawlessness away. I just don’t think that innocent people, who were not involved, should have to suffer because legitimate industry was driven away by the greedy.
The ATF is distributing marijuana, Ernie? Are you sure? And is this the place you want to be making that allegation? Just wondering... you've certainly got my attention!
Robin, I was referring to Cristina's (9:36) comment about alcohol prohibition. Don’t start any more rumors, I’m already feeling misunderstood.
Glad to see you back, how’s the grandbaby?
I'm really glad to have found Ernie's Place. I'm a great grandson of John Samuel Simmerly. I first went to the old homestead up from Shell Rock Creek back in 1950. My mom grew up in a log cabin across the creek. My grandma was Grace Simmerly. Her brother, Uncle Guy inherited all the land as was the custom in those days. 6,000 of what was once about 12,000 acres. Uncle Fred Simmerly owned land south of them. Figuratively, they owned the whole east side of Shell Rock and Iron Peak mountain down to the river for over 70 years. Guy's son Ben sold his land and moved to Potter's Valley and brother Howard died in a fire some members of the family think his wife set deliberately so she could sell the rest of the land which she did. I recently tried to visit the old homestead. I could see where the old house was from the top of Iron Peak Mountain. The houses all burned down back in the 60's. But I couldn't get past the locked gate on Simmerly Road.
A man named Larry said that even the firefighters were stopped from going down that road to fight a fire during the recent lightning storm. I just want to see if I can find any remnants of my mom's log cabin, look at the grinding bowls in the rocks where we used to swim in Shell Rock Creek and find the spot on the road up the hill to the house where the rattler made me freeze for "hours"
while my cousins left my little 3 year old self standing there and ran up the hill. I've seen Spyrock on the river. We rode the train from Willits to Eureka back in the early 60's up the Eel. But I'd like to swim in the river in front of it like my mom's family did in their old fashioned bathing suits in some of the old pictures I've got. But from what I've recently learned and is expounded on in this blog, none of these wishes will ever come true. So enlighten me with your history,
your alternate reality. The real story of the land
We are in Pioneering in the Shadow of Cahto Mountain. The Simmerlys and the Kaubles. Laura Kauble was John's wife. Laura was 7 years old living across the road from where the Cahto Casino is next to the pond that you can barely see anymore from the road. Her dad was the constable and her mom the midwife in old Cahto. The ghost town that was there before Laytonville. He was killed in 1870and his wife died of a broken heart 2 years later. So the seven kids were separated. Laura went to live in Covelo about the same time the Simmerlys moved there from Marysville where they had been selling beef to the miners.
In about 1890, Laura and John lost all their stock on their rented ranch north of Covelo during a severe winter. That's when they moved to Spyrock. And when the railroad was built a few years later they had a way to send their cattle to market. My Uncle Delbert was a cowboy his whole life and was friends with Slim Pickens and Ben Johnson from his rodeo days back in the fifties. He used to break horses for them and had his own team roping arena on his ranch with lights. He could roll a cigarrette with one hand using his stubby fingers on horseback. When he was young, he had a hot temper and could cuss up a storm and drank whiskey all the time. His hero was Uncle Guy.
So I think I have a good idea of how the people were back in the Round Valley days. Fearless and tough. And loads of character.
And the women were as sweet as Napa wine.
Spyrock, Thank-you for writing!
So much of history has been lost. Most of what you read on this blog is what I call “Bullshistory”. Some of it real, some of it from good guesses, and some of it from my fuzzy memory. Often people write and correct me, which is great. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong, but the history and the old stories that I was raised with come out, and it is like “going back home” for me.
The “Old-Timers” baseball game will be held in Laytonville this week-end, Saturday 16th. Most of Laytonville’s old timers show up there, unfortunately fewer every year. Kato Mayo is dead, but she was a expert on Laytonville’s history. She also knew a bunch of Laytonville’s “Bullshistory”, but like many historians she would not pass on a twice told tale unless she could verify it as fact. Most of what’s left of the Branscomb family will be there. I remember my Grandmother Ruby (Middleton) Branscomb, and my Aunt Roberta Branscomb saying something about the Simmerly’s, but I don’t remember anything but the name, and the ranch.
I have a good friend, Jim Baker, that told me that I should always footnote things that I’m not sure of, so I’m not passing on bad information, so I try to do that. But, sometimes I write things that I think is fact that is actually a twice told tale.
I remember the Simmerly Ranch up Spyrock road. I used to go through the ranch to go fishing with my dad Everett, in the main Eel back in the fifties. It isn’t like it used to be in the old days. The new people… Oh hell, the “dope growers” don’t want you on their property. That’s not bullshistory. It is dangerous to leave the main roads anymore. The moneyed growers don’t make their living growing cattle and they have squeezed out cattle ranching, it’s almost a thing of the past.
My Uncle Delbert was a cowboy his whole life and was friends with Slim Pickens and Ben Johnson from his rodeo days back in the fifties.
I know this is off topic, but my dad used to see Slim Pickens and Ben Johnson at the Fortuna Rodeo in the 1940's and 50's also.
Back to the topic.
Can you imagine what may have happened if the back-to-the-landers and the newcomers could have accomplished if they had put their time, energy and money into legitimate crops starting back in 1970. Instead of marijuana, it could have been a cottage industry on the sort of Pepperwood or Shively or grapes for wine or what have you. By now, SoHum could have been know as the region for ??????, but the era of newcomers were most definitely based on pot. C'mon, they were too.
Had the newcomers adapted to the logging, millwork and ranching like the locals, it would have turned out completly different.
Kym, what if marijuana had never been introduced into Southern Humboldt or Eastern Humboldt and now entrenched into grow houses all along the county. Where would we be? We would have adapted or gone belly-up. I believe we would have adapted.
The marijuana money came too easy. Now that marijuana is the dominant money source we are facing the consequences.
Ernie, I'm not with you on one subject though.
I say, Legalize it, Commercialize it, Tax it, Be done with it.
If it becomes our cottage industry....let's control it so the little bastards who are armed to the teeth and destroying the environment don't end up taking over.
Think Lost Coast Brewery or Cypress Grove Chevre or Alternate Energy Engineering. Niche Marketing. All legal, commercial, taxed and controlled.
Sorry, but the Us is not Us.
Well Ernie... I was exactly on the other side of the fence on the herbicide spraying issue and to say it was growers afraid of the spray simply reflects "town wisdom" of the time. In fact, the spraying was to happen in the early spring before the fir buds burst. Long before the pot crop would have ben planted. Pot growers are far too paranoid to be political, the central group on the anti spray side were more like trust fund hippies from some very good schools and as I recall, the leader was the wife of a rancher from Harris.. My concern was a Coombs spray site within a half mile of my beloved and newly purchased land on the Nielsen Ranch. I spent years as an agricultural exterminator and knew all about spray drift. The same crew of raving hippie enviros created Redwoods Rural Health Center, The Mateel Center (and the Reggae Festivals) The Community Credit Union, Beginnings and a slew of excellent local schools and businesses.
I do admit that there is no one more righteous and irritating than an old hippie. A little spray drift in '78-'79 is no comparison to the motor oil currently being buried on our rural land. Where is Darrel Cherney on this topic? This will be a toxic legacy it will take generations to redeem. The only final way to shut down the diesel grows is to Legalize it. It only takes a moments thought to realize that. Consider the effect another 10 or 20 years of this will certainly have on our beautiful land and water. This is a hidden disaster in the making. No law enforcement effort will stop it and I'm not crazy about the idea of legalization, but it seems, to me, the only way. So back to the old boom and bust for the local economy. It wasn't always good times during the logging boom.
Legalize it!
Ben, old friend, you have a nice way of saying that I'm wrong with out being insulting, I appreciate that.
You are right in that not all loggers were nice. Some of them took their logs right down the creeks and to the mills the fastest way possible. I've tried to avoid naming names and pointing fingers to anyone on either side, but there was also spraying well into marijuana season, in fact the plants themselves were sprayed on logging land. So, we are both right.
I guess you and I both know the names of the bastard loggers, and the bastard dope growers, but I thing that I’ll just let their families rest in piece. It won’t do any good to dredge up the old log pond.
I agree that something has to be done about the “US of us that are screwing things up right now. If I’m right and the economy of the north coast takes a dump if it is legalized, I don’t see any disaster funding coming our way, do you? Can you see Bush or Schwartsenegger saying, “Oh those poor people that lost out because dope growing was stopped need help, let’s send them an aid package”. Ha ha. I think we will just be left to rot on the vine.
If other people are right, and the price doesn’t drop, how would that rid us of dope growing?
I really don’t get it.
“We would have adapted or gone belly-up. I believe we would have adapted.”
What Ekovox said has a lot of validity, we would have adapted to a slow transition, and most likely we would have been in a far better position today if the growers that moved here hadn’t scared industry and retirement off.
I’m not sure what we would be today, but it would have been based on something legal. But, I guess we’ll never know, it seems like something must be getting out of hand in the hills. Otherwise why is “us” having all of these meetings.
Another thing that I find a tad offensive, is when the problem is a rogue dope grower we are all “us“. When it was a rogue logger, it was no-holds-barred. They were called every name in the book and everything that could possibly be done was done. Equipment was ruined, sand in the motors, spikes in the trees, lawsuits, chained to trees, and every form of protest known to man, from top to bottom was used to break the logger.
What happened are things that different now? Where are the screaming rabid protests?
Thanks for responding to me. Most of what I know about Spyrock is from my mom and grandma and cousins. Great grandma Laura was 90 years old when I was young and she didn't say much but I always slept in her bed. I have my grandma's yearbook from Spyrock school back in ot 1900. I think there's a Branscomb in it. I know there's a piece written by a Cummings. I can tell you a bit about my first trip up 101 in Uncle Delbert's studebaker. Just past the Black Cat Cafe we'd shoot up a steep hill and on to a dirt road for miles along a ridge. My oldest cousin Jerry Ann would lead us in She'll be coming around the mountain when she comes all the way there. About half way we would stop and look at a really round rock with Indian writing on it. They weren't killing the old red rooster when we came, they were cutting the tails off their pigs and blood was everywhere. Underneath a row on the barn of about 20 sets of deer antlers.
They were all having fun messing with the pigs while Aunt Joy showed me the row of rattlesnake
tails and shook one and told me to freeze if i ever heard that sound.
about 9pm they finally came in for supper and then sent me off to bed up on the 2nd or 3rd floor way in back of the house with an oil lamp and told me to watch out for black widows which I saw on the ceiling all night long until I fell asleep.
I woke up the next day in a victorian in the middle of nowhere with open air poarches all around each floor. They had a wind up phonograph with a megaphone speaker and those records that fit in a tube. The yard was full of flowers and further on they had corn and other crops they were growing. They had those 3 cats that blend into their surroundings from a book I had been reading at the time. It was a magical place.
what I know of those times other than my relatives is from historical books and newspaper clippings. Grandma Laura told my cousins that she had to hide when she was a little girl when the Indians attacked them. But she also told them that she was part Indian which back in the 50's was not something that someone would brag about. But with her mom being a midwife and her dad the sherrif it's easy to think that they would wind up with some half breeds. All I'm trying to do is pass on the story to future generations. If anyone knows of some good books about the area or some old timers that can still relate, I would appreciate hearing about it. I've got boxes of pictures and that yearbook is in one of them. The other reason I've come up north the last 5 years is because our boys have been playing in the American Legion State baseball tounament in Yountville. They are state champions again this year and off to Bozeman, Montana to the regionals this week. Andrew was a coach this year after 4 years going as a player. We'll be near Boulder Creek for a full moon ceremony in the Santa Cruz mountains the 16th stringing the beads.
Spyrock, That old round rock with the Indian writing is almost destroyed. It is sad that some people don’t value history and just want to collect an artifact. Most of the glyfs were destroyed by people trying to chip them off.
I know the location of other rocks that I will only tell the most trusted person where they are. If you know of any, please don’t tell about them openly. Seek out a trusted researcher or friend to tell about it, and don’t tell a researcher that thinks these kind of things should be public knowledge. I can give you names of trusted Indian researchers if you need. Otherwise I really enjoy your storys and I’m going to print them all out and share them with my family this weekend.
Thanks again for telling me your stories. This is just exactly why I started this blog. I’m running into history about the north coast that I never knew existed.
I really can't comment on your pot discussion as I don't live there.
I remember hearing that alcohol was illegal years ago and when I go north it looks like the same thing to me. y'all grow pot just like you do grapes.
I live near what's called the meth capital of the world. Crank is the worst drug there is and I'd take a stoner and a wine taster any day than deal with a crankster.
They just arrested some college kid who had a meth lab at his house that was full of $5,000 worth of equipment that he stole from school. He was working on his doctorate in chemistry and they say he had developed some crank that you can't trace in your blood afterward. All on a student loan I bet. Crank is the most addictive drug there is and really tough to kick. You never hear anything about pot down here. Where are you guys selling it. China?
Is that why the Chinese sky is that funny brown green color?
I don’t know where they sell it, I’m out of the loop, but I understand that the price is coming down, because it is a drug on the market. (Seriously)
Hello, Spyrock!
I lived in Laytonville for 50 years before moving up to Oregon almost 2 years ago... that amounts to my whole life (so far). The Simmerly name is still well known there. I hope Ernie is putting you in touch with his historian cousin, Penny Comer. And maybe Diane Hawke. I would love to see your pictures & yearbooks... do you ever come to the Old Timer's Day Picnic in Laytonville? I won't be there this year but probably will be next year. I'm still pretty attached to the area.
By the way, I have some good & fairly recent pictures of that old round rock you guys are talking about... how can I pass them on to you? I could e-mail them to Jimmy who could e-mail them to Ernie who could e-mail them to you... let me know if you'd like to see them. Ernie, too!
Robin
It's me again, Spyrock. I just realized something... if you want to "swap tales", you should get in touch with some-any-or-all of the Pincheses in Laytonville. Any one of them would love to hear from you, I'm sure! Johnny is the county supervisor & lives at Island Mountain. His number is listed in the book but I still don't feel right posting it here.
You have valuable & important information to share. As I said, I would love to meet with you but that might not be possible right away. I don't know where you live in relation to me. But you can e-mail me if you'd like & we can chat a bit.
I'm going to give you guys my email so whomever wants to can email me pictures and vice versa.
spyrock69@aol.com The 69 is because I got kicked off of aol once for upsetting the cowboy fans when the 49ers won the superbowl.
69 is the year I graduated from college just to make things clear.
Bob Comings from up your way is spyrock.com. I think his grandfather had a crush on my grandmother back at spyrock school according to my mom. But he never answered any of my emails so I don't really know if he's the right guy. Just so you know, my dad left me 100 years worth of junk to sort through after he died two years ago and he never threw anything away. so I've saved everything I could sorting through junk mail, garbage, and just too much stuff to imagine. All the pictures are stacked in boxes filling up a bedroom and I don't know when I'll get to them. And we were just in Laytonville Monday before last.
There was a lady that was the daughter of Philo Short who grew up in Island Mountain and used to ride her horse to Spyrock School,
I think her name was Rohrback or something. She wound up marrying a decendant of George White and lived in his old house in Covelo. She died not too long ago but her story is still on line when you search Covelo history. I'm interested in anything about Cahto, Laytonville, Covelo, and Spyrock. I've got MENDOCINO COUNTY REMEBERED VOLUME 11 M-Z and PIONEERING IN THE SHADOW OF CAHTO MOUNTAIN. I read GENOCIDE AND VENDETTA years ago but Uncle Delbert's grandson Little Mel has it now somehow. I last saw John Simmerly, Ben's son who sold the ranch in Potter's Valley and bought a ranch in Montegue at a Simmerly family reunion when my mom was still alive 7 years ago, but John sold that ranch and I don't know where he is yet. Little Mel went up there years ago trying to find out if our side of the family had any interest in the land up there. I've got a letter from the welfare department to Grandma Laura saying they couldn't give her benefits because she had an interest in all that land. But she wrote back saying she didn't. John left everything to Ben and Howard with a Life Estate to Uncle Guy. Of course, my Uncle Archie was their attorney, Pappy's brother, but we just don't know what rights the women had in those days. I do have a copy of a mineral claim on Iron Peak Mountain
for quartz but I don't know how long those things last either.
I'm real interested in information about the Klauber's in old Cahto.
My mom said that he was sherrif when Black Bart was up there and that he was killed by Indians. The books say that he took some Cahto's to Round Valley. But it seems like he was basically protecting them from some of the local settlers that wanted to kill them for whatever reason. They did live right next to the Rancheria.
When the parents died the kids were taken in by several different familys, but I have a picture of all seven of them when they had a reunion years later. I didn't know who they were for a long time. Most people in the family know nothing about the Klaubers or Cahto either for that matter.
I understand about not revealing the location of that rock, but I don't remember how to get there anyway. So send me pictures and names of books about your local history. It would be much appreciated.
Spyrock, love your mail here. It is "Magical" and reminds me of days gone by. Have you ever heard of Name Rock? It is a big soap stone bolder with names on it going back a long ways. I am proud to say my name is etched on there as well.
Oregon
Okay, Spyrock, I will send you some pictures. By the way, my mother's family is the Dunlaps out of Covelo... related somehow to the Rohrbaughs you mention... also the Hurts, Shorts & Longs (really!). Lost our copy of "Genocide & Vendetta" by loaning it out... have you tried to buy another one? Yikes! Last I looked, the price was over $1,000 for a hardbound copy on E-Bay. I'll send you a trial e-mail first to make sure it works & then send some pictures of what the locals call Indian Rock. It's right alongside Spy Rock Rd. just below the (new) school. It's easy to miss if you don't know what you're looking for, though... is on the right hand side going up the hill.
Did you know the Nyhens in Laytonville?
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And isn't that just like you, Jimmy Oregon, to be proud of yourself for defacing public property!
Boy Ernie, The heck with the pot stuff, this string got really interesting. Thanks Spyrock!
"Genocide & Vendetta" sounds intriguing. There is an excellent review of this book on Amazon where, by the way, the price is a mere $735. (Maybe one of the local herb growers could offer to buy us all a copy to share.)
Has anyone read either of the 2 other books that cover much of the same material? They're entitled "The Story of the Stolen Valley," by Rena Lynn and "The Saga of Round Valley: The Last of the West," by John E. Keller?
We left the Casino looking for old Cahto on the Winchester Ranch. A man at the casino said that he had heard of a Winchester Flats and we drove by a flat place just before a pond with waterlilys blooming in it. We just kept driving down Cahto Road all the way through Branscomb and on to Westport. Man, you guys live in the most beautiful country. The next thing you know I'm hooking up with Ernie here. The rock Robin sent me pictures of is not the same rock.
So don't worry about anyone finding it because I can't remember how to get there anymore.
The road in these days isn't the road we used to take.
I'm going to comment on your pot topic because I know a bit about what y'all are going through. Personally, I like to keep some things at a distance these days. They look much better far away. But that comes from being smack dab in the middle of it a bit too often. But first a little bullshistry.
when the Asbils discoverd Round Valley they had a Kelsey brother with them. (Kelseyville) Kelsey's wife was related to the same Texas Clanton family that showed up to fight Wyatt Earp.
Wyatt Earp didn't have any children but his family did come originally through North Carolina. My sister married an airman from North Carolina whose mother was named Daisy Earp as in You'll be pushing up daisys if you do. aka Doc Holiday. My two great nephews were the ones playing in Yountville that won the American Legion state title three times now. The biggin' Tbone is fondly remembered by the residents of the veterans home as being the kid who hit the splash homerun into the swimming pool a ways past the right field fence.
So if you want to stop the Clantons or people like them either in Tombstone or Round Valley or your precious ET (Emerald Triangle), you've got to stand up to them at high noon or get out of dodge. Of course, you have to realize that you will probably be alone out there by yourself. All the townspeople will be watching from the safety of their homes bravely typing on the internet at best.
I can't begin to tell you what happened to me in a similiar situation. I'll try to be as vague as possible because all of the usual suspects are still at large. You could compare it to the yolla bolly days in Round Valley. People getting killed, disappearing, nobody knowing who did it. So a young fearless fool who thinks they are messing up his town gets confronted by the main villian because he knows it's my town. The walls have ears they told him. He talks me into throwing the first punch, I miss, he doesn't. The next thing you know he's pulling me up and buying me a pitcher of beer we drink together. I lost the fight, but won the war. The guy tried to straighten his life out after that.
They show up with the big donation whenever someone goes missing. They had all the bases covered too. The county sherrif, the city cops, the mayor, the judges. They got away with it. Nobody stood up to them except some of their victims families and usually not even them. Everyone else looked the other way.
The Yolla Bolly story is a lot more common than you think. It's happening all over. But things always change. So I've learned to be patient and I've learned to look for the good in people even if its hard to see sometimes. So if it doesn't look good up close, I move farther back until it does.
I stay hooked up to my own energy.
I don't fuel their flames. I live in my reality, I choose to. I stay hooked up to me. The market always corrects itself.
Plenty of people have "gone missing" during the pot season of the last 30 or 40 years, Spy... but hardly any, or none, of them were on the same side as Will Kane.
Spyrock said:
“So if you want to stop the Clantons or people like them either in Tombstone or Round Valley or your precious ET (Emerald Triangle), you've got to stand up to them at high noon or get out of dodge.
So a young fearless fool who thinks they are messing up his town gets confronted by the main villian because he knows it's my town. The walls have ears they told him. He talks me into throwing the first punch, I miss, he doesn't. The next thing you know he's pulling me up and buying me a pitcher of beer we drink together. I lost the fight, but won the war. The guy tried to straighten his life out after that.”
Been there, done that, back in the early seventies, same as you the judge was on their side. The cops definitely weren’t, but they weren't going to start any fights that the judge and DA would throw out anyway. We got our asses kicked same as you, I’m still waiting for them to pick me up and buy me a beer.
I said, we got whipped out, and I just decided to mind my own business and let the rest of them play cops and robbers, but I am anxious to see how they work out this “Major grow scene” thing and the diesel spills though.
Ernie, I agree with your earlier comment - legalizing it would be the biggest sledgehammer to this situation.
I imagine that the growers most concerned about the bottom line, could increase their profit margin by moving into industrially zoned areas. And if individuals could grown for personal use?... then the demand decline. And the whole industry could be more competitive in something resembling a free market. In the meantime it's about who you know.
Kaivalya,
There will be a circle around the moon tonight, someone agrees with me! I have given it a lot of thought, we got into this slow we need to get out slow.
"we got into this slow we need to get out slow."
Very true. Overall this situation could be worse. Looking toward the positive, I'd like to believe that Humboldt, with all it's stereotypes, has helped changed our state/national culture toward a better and more liberated framework. Just like the green trend, once weed became an accepted part of American culture, there is no stopping it.
The point being. If you get rid of your pot, what do you think will take it's place? My whole experience was about crank.
Pot was the thing here back in the sixties but its been crank ever since. But I guess the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.
http://www.amazon.com/Genocide-Vendetta-Valley-Northern-California/dp/0806115491
Genocide and Vendetta: The Round Valley Wars in Northern California (Hardcover)
› 7 used & new available from $649.99
After more than three decades of the same conversation on the same topic, reaching the same conclusions and disagreements, what has been accomplished? Zero. Nothing. Nada. The same tired old debate goes on. That is both the definition of Hell, and of insanity. Three decades of the same argument. My God!
Look up the word "appeasement." It doesn't just apply to foreign policy. It is simply this: "The policy of giving in to the demands of a hostile or aggressive power in an attempt to keep the peace."
This won't break the deadlock here, but I'm sure that definition will ring a bell with some of you.
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